[MissMisa]

Originally Posted by JoshAussie

I hate feminists but that doesnt mean i dont believe in equality. Women shouldnt be held back from doing things and I literally cant think of anything (besides serving in a combat role in the military) that women arent allowed to do (in my country atleast) and id say its the same for most "developed" countries. In countries were there are feminists that actually have things to complain about.. Theres probably alot worse things happening to both gender anyway.

EDIT: As to feminists in countries such as Australia, England, America Etc .. When will it stop? Do you want to work and be the provider of the household raise the children and do everything else?? If so.. go for it. Sounds good to me.... a relationship is always going to require both genders to fill certain roles. And it doesnt matter if its the wwoman working and the man being a stay at home dad. But women can work so its not like this cannot be accomplished. Its just like their argueing because they want to do everything and like i said above. If my future wife was Superwomen and could do all those things and actually really wanted to why would i not let her??

Just quickly to the thing about men being the primary carer of the child whilst the woman works. I dont think the instincts are in me to watch a child all day everyday. Im sure many many many other men also feel more comfortable in a "hunting and gathering" role. And im sure many Women would also prefer the maternal role. So whats the problem? You can do everything men can do.. I know my mum and dad make about the same Money they both make alot but my dad has been doing his job for over 15 years, My mum recently just got a new job as my baby brother is at the age where she is able to work and she got a job paying just as much as my dad within a few weeks of searching. (i wont say exactly how much my parents make but its high above the average in Australia.) Also my mum dropped out of school at year 10 i think and my dad finished with top marks at a private school. So Women saying "it cant be done" Are either just looking for something to bitch about (feminist) or dont have any motivation.

There is nothing at all wrong with a women staying at home, and a man going to work, if that's what they both to want to do. What the actual problem is, is not having that choice. That's what women fought for, and that's what we get in more devoped countries.

As for, 'will it stop,' to be honest Josh, I don't think it will. Even though things have changed vastly for developed countries, there will always be discrimination in places there because the world isn't perfect.

As for feminists in devoped countries, they are allowed to speak out, and speak out for the women who are not allowed.

Originally Posted by Wasabista

Well, I'm mostly concerned about modern "victim feminists," the ones who claim, for example, that 20% or 30% of women have been raped at some point in their lives (the claim is false, and probably a deliberate lie).

But the problem for me is the idea that "women have been oppressed for thousands of years," and at last women have courageously won their freedoms, and now we men owe you big time. This line of thought can be easily dismantled.

First, we have to distinguish between two types of societies:
1) Modern nation-states like the United States, where slavery is illegal, the judiciary is largely independent, a culture of adherence to the law prevails, peaceful dispute mechanisms exist, soldiers stay in their barracks and borders are well defined and secure.

2) The world as it was from the development of agriculture to the first world war: No international law, in many cases no law of any sort as we would recognize it, shifting borders, daily violence, constant warfare.

Feminists claim they've been oppressed, but how can that be? Women were never forced to go to war. Men were. Women did not have to defend their households with their lives. Men did. If a woman was accosted in the market, who took vengeance? Her husband, or her brother. Women have always been PROTECTED by men.

Women's quest for meaningful jobs today is a real one, and an important one, but it is also recent. The word had no meaning in traditional agricultural/industrial societies, when all work was a horror chamber.

Did women have hard lives? Oh yes. Harder than men's? Hell, no. Not by a long, long shot.

And that is why, across the face of this vast Earth and throughout all recorded history, there are no records of a feminist revolution anywhere. None.

...Until the late 19th to early 20th century, when the following happened.

1. Women asked men for the vote.
2. Men, surprised to hear that they wanted it, gave it to them.
3. Er, that's it.

Not a shot fired. Revolution, indeed!

I don't think you really know that much about the opression of women to be honest. Of course many men went through horrible suffering too. I am completely against any type of descrimination or gender roles, and that includes men.

Many men did not want women to have the vote. If they just gave it to us, then the suffragettes would not have existed. Feminists are not all women, many men are also feminists too, and were also very supportive of the suffragettes. It was not a case of men vs women, it was a case of them vs authority who believed that women's opinions were less valid and were less intelligent, therefore making their vote innaccurate. This is obviously not the case. After a long struggle, many protests, and hunger strikes, the women finally did get the vote. After a women chucked herself under the kings horse to draw attention to the cause. We did not just get it like that.