[Tsuwabuki]

We usually don't add proverbial in that case; we just say the proverb. "Man am I up a creek without a paddle!"

Originally Posted by Columbine

Unfortunately as to whether the producer is thinking them is probably shaky ground. The cynic in me doubts whether as a money-spinner they really care or not, and don't simply possess a "lets milk it while we can" mentality. I think for practical reasons, proving that any producer (if they do) are purposefully being incisive could well be impossible, but they could simply be neglecting close scrutiny of what the affects are.

We would still, then, need to show the producer knew, in a real way, of the effects of the games, and chose to produce them anyhow. Much as if I know someone is going to kill someone else and I do nothing, I might, if the situation is clear enough, have been guilty of neglect.

What bothers me, and perhaps this is a very western perspective, is that if these games were say, focused on the abuse of a single racial stereotype, they possibly would never have even hit the production line on grounds of racism. Why then is it acceptable for a focus on abuse of women, or at least for it to be considered in very different terms?

Unfortunately, and while I don't have link in hand, this is not the case. The stereotypes of blacks I have seen in Japan were initially very, very shocking. In anime, and in toys, and sometimes, yes, in games. I think it's decreasing, but it doesn't change what already exists. And it's not quite the same, because most people believe there is no inherent difference between races, and that rather the "racial experience" comes from contact between people of different races, and is essentially, an artificial construct. Say seriously that there is any real inherent, relevant difference between races, and you come off sounding like one of the Nazi social scientists.

Say you believe there is some inherent difference between men and women, and you get a clap on the back from both the conservative far-right who believes women to be inherently inferior, and the far-left radical women's movement that maintains women deserve their own everything, because they are inherently different (if not superior).

In continuation from that, I'm not sure I fully understand your last point, so I will simply say that the impression I have is that these games seem to be quite gendered in and of themselves, and so that, to me, makes gender issues relevant.

It would take an entire thread of its own, but I believe gender is NEVER relevant. In fact, I believe gender doesn't exist inherently. There's anatomic sex, and then there's gender identity which is developed in the same way other identity traits are, and our concept of "matching" is arbitrary and antiquated, and that the differences we see in behavior are self-created, and thus that third opinion I have is that, honestly, banning or not banning the games will have no effect whatsoever on misogyny or rape at all. It's all window dressing. It's people trying to look like they're doing something because they can't face the real issue: it is our failure to treat "boys" and "girls" equally from the moment of birth (or sometimes before, pink and blue? Really?) and to pin their eventual, unformed identity on what they have between their legs, and then our continual enforcement of it every minute of every day for the rest of their lives that causes certain individuals to believe that actions, such as rape, could ever been considered allowable. If we can teach children to move anatomic sex to the same level of importance as race, and respect each other as individuals, I do not think misogyny will continue, and the demand for rape games will either decrease, or be shown to have zero effect on the destabilised individuals who choose to rape regardless of any outside stimuli.

The problem is, we won't do it. If anything, I've seen my side lose ground on this. The fact that even public schools have been experimenting with same-sex classes, classrooms, or entire schools is the worst possible thing we could do. It's running full speed the opposite direction. We'll never make progress that way. We learned that lesson, or should have, from race: separate is NEVER equal, and it ALWAYS causes discrimination. Some segment of one of the groups will always find a way to argue that the separation represents superiority of one group over the other.