[xyzone]

Originally Posted by Columbine

They don't 'inherently' find the bad behaviour attractive though, which is what you were implying. They find the by-products of jerk insensitivity and deceit (confidence, flattery) attractive.

Potato, potatoh. I think it would be better put that they don't find the obsequious, brainwashed charmers of today very interesting at all, hence not attractive.

So stop putting words in women's mouths then. If you can admit have no idea what women think, why bandy about as if you do?

You miss the point. I was talking to men, not women. I know how women think.

ADVISE men to beware of gold-diggers, jerk girls and the legal pitfalls of marriage , of course, but don't hyperbolize that women are all conniving bitches who want nothing more than their heads on a silver salver and their assets in a grab-bag.

It's not my place to preach somebody else's idealism.

Nice back-peddle function you have there. Does it also dig holes?

What backpedal? You presented women you know as that speculative evidence, and I presented same women as this speculative evidence. I was trying to make a point that we were both just speculating about each of our points.

Right, because pregnancy means your brains leak out. Never-married single mothers cannot possibly be using marriage as a tool to leech off of men, so they have no place in this discussion.

I never said it was necessarily that (although child support applies regardless of marrige). My focus was on their selection in sex partners. If not jerks, certainly not nice guys.

if they're screwing men over for money, it tends to be outside of the marriage contract.

It doesn't matter. It refers to the same motivation and the same thinking, or lack thereof.

So yes, I think these women are making conscious moves that turn out to be mistakes if they date jerks, but then they're also more vulnerable to jerk tactics.

Well, you just made my point for me. It also doesn't matter what the long term intentions are, if any. Being a jerk works for the lightside as well.

Single motherhood is stressful, frugal and often romantically lonely.

Then they shouldn't have gotten pregnant. And listen, I'm not advocating that deadbeat dads are any better here. They should lose their shirt over it if necessary.

He's got to also step up and play dad and that takes some serious thought as to if he's a jerk or not.

This helps the single mom, sure. But I wouldn't recommend any eligible bachelor ever get involved with a single mother, esp. if she has more than 1 child. Not under any circumstances.

Show me some data if you really think single women only date jerks.

They slept with men who were too jerk-like to stay or too jerk-like to be a tolerable presence for long. The data is in the subjects themselves.

You're quite blind if you think you don't come across the way you do. As I said, advise by all means, don't rant about how you think american women are all vicious scavenging bimbos and men should just take advantage of any weaknesses they can find and be abusive. How is THAT going to make anything better for anyone?

Truth sets people free. Also keep in mind my brainwashing powers are very weak at best. People who this makes sense to will agree with it and these are the only people I'm talking to. The greater point is that guys shouldn't actually care about what women want. I already think I'm sounding preachy enough by saying they should rather care about the truth, first (and then working from there).

Your advise so far? "Don't get married cause girls are so mean,

I would define what I've said more as them being dangerous, not mean.

Don't be nice-

Not unless you mean it. Which is not true when being nice to a pretty girl because you like her.

be a jerk so you'll get laid,

If they want to, which all do.

harden your heart,

I'm not speaking about the heart. That's a private matter for each person.

be feckless with your relationships, screw around,";

No, I never advocated anyone screw around if they don't want to. I only pointed towards the general direction of how to do it well if that's what they want. Because it's better than seeing pathetic nerds failing at it and then not even cashing in on it in the case of having earned it after much toil. Anyone and everyone is free to be whatever lapdog feminist they desire at their leisure.

Great practical advice there. How does that work in the long term?

In my opinion, it's bound to work, and the more successful the man the better it will.

You've put yourself on a pedestal as the saviour of vulnerable men but you're not helping anyone.

No, I haven't. I just put out there what was on my mind inspired by seeing a friend get made a fool of.

You're just venting bile and throwing around a few figures on a bias that don't actually have any real impact on anyone personally. If 50% divorce, then that's still half of all marriages succeeding, and I highly doubt people get married on the basis of "ooh, the divorce rate has dropped, we should get hitched!" It's irrelevant. Other factors cause divorces, not the rate of divorce itself.

Like I said in above posts, it still leaves contractual marriage relatively defenseless from tangible attack.

No, as they've already answered, they both said it has a place and shouldn't be reacted to as if it's dog dirt or that only morons get married. They didn't say to have a relationship you MUST be married.

Ok, then I'm sorry if somebody took it personal, but it was directed towards the choice itself more than anything not towards every single married person -- which I've never met.