[clintjm]

Manifesto ahead:

Originally Posted by MMM

How? Do you mean having everyone be insured? This is a good thing.

Does this bill cover 100% of all Americans? Nope.
In your case of struggling, please tell me where this new bill is going to help you:
The Associated Press: Health overhaul: Immediate change, long term steps

Your complaint is the your premiums are too high and that there stuff not coverered in your policy costs extra.

Originally Posted by MMM

Really, explain how you are losing control by the government reigning in the completely out of control insurance industry. If anything it gives us, US citizens MORE control of our heath care options.

Dark's point seemed more to the issue of just allowing a slip of the constitution here and pass there... Once the flood gates are open...Why stop with mandating you buy government approved health insurance policies?

How is the private insurance industry out of control? Its health care cost that is out of control. In most states insurance companies are regulated to the point where you have no true options to health insurance; mainly because they can't cross state lines. Again 95% of the insured today are happy with their insurance. Much less for those denied by medicare and Medicaid.

There are some pluses to this reform no doubt, but are quickly canceled out by the minuses. Plus look at the changing every hour deficit price tag.

Originally Posted by MMM

Would you rather have elected officials doing this or for-profit corporations who have your health at the bottom of their priority lists?

Elected officials really don't give a damn about what the voters think, which is demonstrated exactly by the passing of this bill. Eventually a insurance company that just denies everyone or has premiums no one can afford will eventually fail. The government just does what they do, they get paid anyway. See post office example. See % of denials by medicare and Medicaid versus private insurance companies.

Originally Posted by MMM

We do things the government forces us to do everyday. From moving our clocks an hour forward in spring to getting a government issued license to drive a car, living in a society means living by rules, and in our case these rules are determined by elected officials in the government. We need insurance to drive a car (at least in my state) and just as people want other drivers to have car insurance, as people we want everyone to have health insurance. This will save lives (as people will be able to go to the doctor earlier if they are sick) and save money (we pay for people that default on medical bills). But everyone SHOULD be insured. That's how it is in every other first world country on the planet. If everyone is covered that makes it less expensive for everyone. Just as you want your neighbor to have home owners insurance and the driver next to you to have car insurance, you want everyone to have health insurance.

Here we go again..
The fact you can choose not to purchase and drive a car.
I can also choose not to receive medical care. Being forced to purchase a good or service just for existing is unconstitutional. As you will see soon, states will take this to the courts as being unconstitutional.

You can't force anyone to buy a privately owned good or service in America.
You don't have to in any other country?

Having everyone insured doesn't fix the problem of rising health care costs, which this bill doesn't fix. They have only postponed the problem while causing another.

Originally Posted by MMM

Wrong here. Primary health insurance run by private corporations exists in only one first world country: The US.

But what about private insurance companies such as Aflac in Japan are doing quite well too. You would be surprised on what is covered and what is not under the Japan's National health insurance for things such illnesses as Cancer and the like in comparison to the average US private policy

First hand knowledge: Canada's health system for the most part is a mess due to the government health care system. Do you like lotteries? It only eeks by due to the proximity of the US.

Originally Posted by MMM

The idea of choosing not to have health insurance is completely foreign anywhere else in the civilized world. Knowing the cost of health care, why would anyone CHOOSE not to have insurance? That's like choosing to cut off a hand. Yes, you have that option, but why handicap yourself?
And having used health care in both Japan and the US I can assure you that elected officials are more interested in you being alive to vote for them again than for profit companies are interested in paying for your health bills. There are people in these companies that GET BONUSES for tossing people OUT of their programs for having expensive medical problems. Imagine if that were happening in a government program. Heads would roll.I have received wonderful care in both countries, but in Japan there is no denial of service. There is no bankruptcy from expensive medical bills. There are no expensive prescriptions and insurance middle-men telling the doctor what tests he can or can't give me.

So you are saying elected officials in Japan are elected on how satisfied people are with their health care experience? Do you really think medical care quality is going to improve with the government involved? Nope... it isn't

There is no denial of service in the US either, but again we are comparing apples to oranges. Population size, amount of medical facilities available, amount of doctors available, people abusing the system (ER crashers for a cold), illegals who use it but can't pay. In Japan you will pay, unless you are dying and need immediate assistance. The difference is the US has sky rocketing costs of health care due to abuse of the system, not health insurance.

With this being said, Japan's health system is a wonderful thing, Canada's isn't. Both on a similar system, but it all comes down to the dynamics of the country.

Originally Posted by MMM

You are describing what I have right now. I pay hundreds of dollars a month to have people tell me that since a condition isn't life threatening it is not covered. In this case it is a private company that has that level of control. This wouldn't happen with single payer, but that doesn't matter.

See my link and tell me what this bill helps you with.

So are your issue is that the coverage is not enough or the price is insurance for coverage? The problem is the cost of health care. There are areas of the Japanese national health insurance that this happens.

Most (not all) insurance companies in the US are putting their profits to continue operating. Due to lack of Tort reform, there will never be any way to weed out the insurance companies who do drop coverage when someone does get sick. Because of this lack of, private insurance companies will eventually crumble, crippling the health care system completely. Why is this?

The true question is why doesn't this health care bill address true problem of health care in America.

Originally Posted by MMM

What does "complete control" mean? You are sounding like a wild-eyed tea bagger claiming the sky is falling. In no way do I feel like the government has complete control over my life...nothing close to that. Yesterday's vote doesn't change that.

Please MMM, try to have some class. It is Tea Party. This is why bipartisanship didn't work with this administration. Elitist-ism. This is what is driving a wedge right down the middle of the country.

There is a reason that more than half of Americans disapproved of government taking this role and why it took this long to "near" forcing this bill through with a majority of democratic in the house and senate and a democratic president. The standard elitist democrat mentality is "you people are too stupid, we need to drag you to it". Lets pass it without a vote. ooops can't do that...

Originally Posted by MMM

The government doesn't pay for people's insurance (unless, of course, they are government workers.

the point is where does it stop? Today its the amount of income we tax, the next year, its this amount or this group, or this situation. The point is the flood gates are open to crush the free market, in this case 1/6th of the economy. Would you just like there to be no private health insurance companies and let the government mandate what health costs will be?


Today we mandate this, tomorrow we mandate that.. Proposed: Salt is bad for you, lets ban it. Some States: Alcohol is a special item, lets let not any private retail business sell it. Instead lets setup state run liquor stores. Proposed: You need "Life Insurance" thus we mandate life insurance policies.
Passed: Banks no longer are in the loan business of student loans. Lets crush those fat cat bankers. WHat?

What percent of your income do you pay in state, federal, sales, property, etc taxes now? What % does the average citizen? Too much. Now the government can mandate you buy a product and service - and we will tell you exactly what minimal policy you will buy. You will help your fellow citizen and you will spread the wealth around.

You already do that? Nope, the government knows better, look at how tight of a budget it runs and how well medicare and social security have turned out.

When will you be considered "rich"? When you will you be taxed enough?