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03-23-2010, 06:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by clintjm View Post

Does this bill cover 100% of all Americans? Nope.
Is that the problem? Really? It would cover 100% of Americans, but that's exactly what the Republicans have been fighting AGAINST since Day 1. So really, you can't fault the bill for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clintjm View Post
In your case of struggling, please tell me where this new bill is going to help you:
The Associated Press: Health overhaul: Immediate change, long term steps

Your complaint is the your premiums are too high and that there stuff not coverered in your policy costs extra.
It's not that it costs extra. It is that it is not covered. Paying out of pocket would mean bankruptcy. This is an issue only Americans deal with in the first world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clintjm View Post
Dark's point seemed more to the issue of just allowing a slip of the constitution here and pass there... Once the flood gates are open...Why stop with mandating you buy government approved health insurance policies?
Slippery slope. Sorry, but I have no patience for slippery slope arguments. With that logic we shouldn't have our taxes pay for police or fire departments. Now do you want no police coverage in your neighborhood anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by clintjm View Post
How is the private insurance industry out of control? Its health care cost that is out of control. In most states insurance companies are regulated to the point where you have no true options to health insurance; mainly because they can't cross state lines. Again 95% of the insured today are happy with their insurance. Much less for those denied by medicare and Medicaid.
Executive Bonuses In Health-Care Companies Deserve Examination | TheLedger.com

amednews: Health plan CEO pay declines in weakened economy :: June 1, 2009 ... American Medical News

Sick for Profit - Insurance CEOs

What is the health insurance industry? (Keep in mind an industry that ONLY exists in this for in the United States.) It is an unnecessary middleman between patients and doctors. The CEOS of these companies come home with MULTI-MILLION dollar paychecks. But how do these companies make so much money? People are paying for health care, and the executives of these companies are some of the RICHEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. This isn't rocket science. Deny service to people that will cost more than they make for the company, and the company makes a profit. This is what they do.

We have proven how private health insurance DOESN'T work in the world.

Sick for Profit - Insurance CEOs

Quote:
Originally Posted by clintjm View Post

There are some pluses to this reform no doubt, but are quickly canceled out by the minuses. Plus look at the changing every hour deficit price tag.
It has actually been denoted to reduce the deficit. You know this. This is partially why it passed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clintjm View Post
Elected officials really don't give a damn about what the voters think, which is demonstrated exactly by the passing of this bill.
I love baseless arguments like this. Thankfully enough of our elected officials actually listened to their constituents instead of special interests and corporate industry lobbyists to pass something that the people actually want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clintjm View Post
Eventually a insurance company that just denies everyone or has premiums no one can afford will eventually fail. The government just does what they do, they get paid anyway. See post office example. See % of denials by medicare and Medicaid versus private insurance companies.
Not when they unify to screw everyone at the same rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clintjm View Post
Here we go again..
The fact you can choose not to purchase and drive a car.
I can also choose not to receive medical care. Being forced to purchase a good or service just for existing is unconstitutional. As you will see soon, states will take this to the courts as being unconstitutional.
Yes, you can choose not to be a car driver. However, you cannot choose to not have medical care. You cannot choose to not have the fire in your apartment put out when you have a fire.

"I can choose not to have medical care" so what, you got shot and you are going to choose to bleed out and die rather than go to the hospital? That is a choice that legally we don't have in most states.

But if this is the stance you believe in, please fight to eliminate 911, police, fire, ambulance and other services in your area.

Personally I like living in an area where my taxes go to pay for fire trucks to put out my neighbor's fire and police to patrol my streets. Why is health care any different?

Quote:
Originally Posted by clintjm View Post
You can't force anyone to buy a privately owned good or service in America.
You don't have to in any other country?

Having everyone insured doesn't fix the problem of rising health care costs, which this bill doesn't fix. They have only postponed the problem while causing another.
Like police and fire, the best thing is to have everyone covered. If they aren't it gets more expensive for everyone. That's simple economics. The problems of rising health care cost have nothing to do with the government, and have to do with the litigious culture of America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clintjm View Post
But what about private insurance companies such as Aflac in Japan are doing quite well too. You would be surprised on what is covered and what is not under the Japan's National health insurance for things such illnesses as Cancer and the like in comparison to the average US private policy
America is the only country where PRIMARY health insurance is something that has to be payed for by the individual. Those that choose to pay for Aflac or SECONDARY health insurance are those that want a single room, instead of sharing a room. It is like insurance for First Class instead of Economy. For those that want to pay for it, fine. However if you don't want it or can't afford it, it is not required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clintjm View Post
First hand knowledge: Canada's health system for the most part is a mess due to the government health care system. Do you like lotteries? It only eeks by due to the proximity of the US.
A lottery would be better than "flat out no".

Quote:
Originally Posted by clintjm View Post
So you are saying elected officials in Japan are elected on how satisfied people are with their health care experience? Do you really think medical care quality is going to improve with the government involved? Nope... it isn't
Satisfaction with health coverage in Japan is such a standard that officials really don't worry about it. Japanese people are not demanding health care reform. Americans are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clintjm View Post
There is no denial of service in the US either, but again we are comparing apples to oranges.
Yes, there is denial of service by American health insurance companies. If I cannot afford to pay for the service out of pocket that means I either 1) don't do it or 2) go bankrupt. As I said earlier 2/3 of personal bankruptcies in the US are due to medical bills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clintjm View Post
Population size, amount of medical facilities available, amount of doctors available, people abusing the system (ER crashers for a cold), illegals who use it but can't pay. In Japan you will pay, unless you are dying and need immediate assistance. The difference is the US has sky rocketing costs of health care due to abuse of the system, not health insurance.
ER Crashers for a cold. Your words. In Japan this word doesn't make sense. There is nothing too small to go to the hospital for. Imagine a world where you go to the hospital for the sniffles, and get service and medicine for a few dollars after national insurance. These systems exist and thrive. There is some benefit to keeping a population healthy.

I have to run, but will try and address the other topics a little later.
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