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sarvodaya (Offline)
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08-28-2010, 09:24 PM

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Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
覚さん、こんばんは。
ゆりさん、こんばんは。

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I think I’ve got that.
When you say “Or you would go mad”, you just have said some advice. On the other hand, when you say “Or you would go insane” with bland or serious expressions, you say the advice joking. Is this right?
Yes, that's exactly right. So it's still advice, but its hyperbolic ironic seriousness is amusing at the same time.

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Yes, いただけませんかis ”いただく+negative form +question.”
When you say 「胡椒をとっていただきたい」(I want you to pass me the pepper.), you sound arrogant. So you add the negative form ません and the question form か.
Ah, I see. It's good to know how to avoid sounding arrogant!
ありがとうございました。

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However, literally, it is not "Can't I get the pepper, please?"
It may be “Can I get you to pass me the pepper?” (I’m not sure if my English is correct. It means like “I’m sorry to bother you, but may I make you pass me the pepper?”) I mean it’s not just “get the pepper”, but “get you …..”. My English is too poor to explain!
No, ゆりさん, your English is not too poor: I understand!
You mean it is like "Can I get you to pass the pepper, please?"
Or maybe "If I ask really nicely, do you think I could get you to pass me the pepper please?"
(Yes, people do actually say that!)
The literal sense you want to convey is that it's talking about persuading someone to do something. Is that right?

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This is also good and polite expression. 「胡椒をとっていただきたいのですが」
ありがとうございました。

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Useful examples:
「(僕と)お付き合いしていただけませんか/(ぼくと)おつきあいしていただけませんか」「僕とお 付き合いしてくださいませんか」Be my sweetheart. (I’m sorry; I don’t know the polite version of this expression. The Japanese sentence is very polite. )
Perhaps it would be: "Please, won't you do me the honour of being my sweetheart?"
Most people would probably feel a bit silly saying something so elaborate in English, but it depends...

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「(僕と)結婚していただけませんか」「僕と結婚して くださいませんか」Will you marry me?(I’m sorry; I don’t know, again. The Japanese sentence is polite.)
"Please would you do me the honour of being my bride?"
As it is a proposal it is more common to say something elaborate like this, even in English!

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You can also say :「僕と付き合ってください(casual)」「彼女になってく� ��さい(young people)」
彼女 usually means “she”, but sometimes means “ female lover”.

「(僕と)結婚してください(polite)」「(僕と)結婚して� �れ」「俺の女房になれ(Be my wife!)」
ありがとうございました、ゆりさん! I now have all the skills necessary to find a Japanese bride!



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There are another いただく as you have written "Can't I get the pepper, please?".
You know, you say いただきます before you eat, remember? I think it means “I receive this boon.
ゆりさん、of course I remember; I love that expression! By the way, "I receive this boon" is technically correct, but no-one would say that in England. The word "boon" can sound pretentious, and it would in this context. There is not a direct translation, but the closest acceptable English sentence may be: "I humbly and gratefully receive this."

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“いただく” can mean “receive” and “get”, and its casual version is “もらう”.
助さんに、本を一冊いただくI receive a book from Sukesan.(However, I know that you would say “Sukesan gives me a book.” That would be 助さんが、本を一冊くださる)

Casual; 「助さんに、本を一冊もらう」「助さんが、本を一冊く れる」

Note!
There is a very important difference between English and Japanese.
We usually say「助さんに本をいただく」「助さんに本をもらう」「 助さんが本をくださる」「助さんが本をくれる」.
We don’t mention about the number except when the number is important.
So, 「助さんが本をくれる」should be “Sukesan gives me a book/books.”
If you don’t like “/”, I don’t know how to write.
Don't worry, ゆりさん, that's the usual way to write an ambiguity.

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Basically, most Japanese sentences can’t be translated into English to be exact.

Let’s imagine. You just arrived at Tokyo airport. You have spent many hours on the airplane. You meet me at the lobby, and say about your flight.
“I read a book on the plane.”
That’s「飛行機の中で本を読んでいました」.
If you say「飛行機の中で、私は一冊の本を読みました」, I would misunderstand that you have finished the book and that the flight must have been too long.
I understand. In English, this is the difference between "I read one book" and "I read a book". However, if you really meant that the flight was long, you would probably say "I read one whole book on the flight". I think the structure is more straightforward in Japanese.

About Sakoku, here is what Ronald P. Toby had to say on the matter in 1977:

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There were no edicts entitled "Sakoku-rei," and there was no "Sakoku policy" in the 1630s. Indeed the very word sakoku did not exist in the seventeenth century. The terms of the day were kaikin (maritime prohibitions, a Ming term), go-kinsei, go-genkin, or simply go-kin, all of which mean "prohibitions"...

However, in 1801, in the face of Russian pressure for trade with Japan, a Nagasaki interpreter, Shizuki Tadao, translated from the Dutch version of Kaempfer (translated from Scheuzer, not from the original German) this chapter, "An Enquiry, whether it be conducive to the good of the Japanese Empire, to keep it shut up as it now is, and not to suffer its inhabitants to have any Commerce with foreign nations, either at home or abroad," as "Ima no Nihonjin zenkoku o tozashite kokumin o shite kokuchū kokugai ni kagirazu aete iiki no hito to tsūshō o sezarashimuru jijitsu ni shoeki naru ni ataureri ya ina ya no ron."

He reversed the characters "kuni o tozasu" to obtain the convenient title "Sakoku ron." (In Shōnen hitsudoku Nihon bunko [12 vols., Hakubunkan, 1891-1892], vol. 5.)

Itazawa Takeo, in his Mukashi no nanyō to Nihon (Nihon Hōsō Shuppan Kyōkai, 1940),p.145, was the first to identify Shizuki as the creator of the term sakoku, which did not become a common term of historiography until after the Meiji Restoration. Yet the term sakoku has come to be used to describe the policies and edicts of an era 160 years prior to its creation. The phrase Shizuki translated as "kuni o tozasu," that is, Scheuzer's "keep it shut up," does not even appear in Kaempfer's original German, "Beweis, dass im Japanischen Reiche aus sehr guten Gründen den Eingebornen der Ausgang, fremden Nationen der Eingang, und alle Gemeinschaft dieses Landes mit übrigen Welt untersagt sey." Kaempfer, Geschichte und F. Beschreibung von Japan (2 vols., Stuttgart: A. BrockhausKomm.-Gesch., Abt. 1964),2:385.

The earliest use I have thus far found of the term sakoku in a Bakufu document is in the letter of Hayashi Fukusai and Tsuda Masamichi to the buke densō, February 12, 1858, during their mission to Kyoto to discuss the Harris Treaty with the imperial court. Dainihon komonjo bakumatsu gaikoku kankei monjo (Tōkyō Teikoku Daigaku, Shiryō Hensan Gakari, 1910- ), 18:796-799.
Journal of Japanese Studies, Vol. 3, No. 2 (Summer, 1977), pp. 323-324

So that's interesting. Apparently the original terminology really was different and the word sakoku was used to make it sound draconian and worse than the reality. Is that the impression you get from reading this?

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I see! We say “My stomach is ‘パンパン’”. But it’s not drumming, but means the condition is full. When you put too many things in your bag, it’s also ‘panpan’.
The sort of expression is “オノマトペ(from onomatopoeia)”.
Gosh, that's interesting!

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Many elderly Japanese people really love this song. They wish to sing it in English, but most of them can’t, because singing in English is difficult to them.
After you finish 「ああ人生に涙あり」, I believe this song is very good for you. What do you think?
Ok, let's do it!
Please would you help me with the words like last time?
After that I would like to learn a more traditional Japanese song as well!

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なんにもしないdo not lift a finger
なんにもしないでwithout doing anything
よりthan


Let’s live seeking for something rather than to live without doing anything.
Is this grammatically correct?
"Let's live seeking for something rather than live without doing anything."
You don't need to say "to live".
A slightly more natural way to say it would be:
"Let's set a direction in life rather than wander aimlessly."
...


ニックネームは「覚醒(sarvodaya)」からとって「覚(か く)」です。

Kaku is the nickname given to me by ゆりさん, derived from the word sarvodaya (सर्वोदय). This, in turn, is a word that was used by Mohandas Gandhi in his 1908 translation of John Ruskin's "Unto This Last" (1860s).
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