any soldiers out there?

[Hyakushi]

Originally Posted by fluffy0000

Hyakushi for somebody who does'nt have pubic hair yet , most people are older than you. When you finish your fantasy about being a marine have your mommy tuck you into bed like a 'good little marine' . semper fi -

You must really love to talk about other mens balls and linger to take in the scene, I wouldn't want to be caught in the showers with you Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!.

[Hyakushi]

Originally Posted by TalnSG

YES! (Taln salutes Fluffy)

And remember little one, a good Marine respects the Marines and those of other military services that came before him. Now be a good little jar-head and get some manners.

Oh I'm sorry if I'm not a kiss ass, I give people as much respect as they give me and wow I had no idea they teach manners in the military that explains it guess that is what they are known for.

[Paul11]

a sincere thank you to all who served in the armed forces. You have secured our freedom from the shadow of tyrany and the looming socialist movements. Hu-rah!

[SeeD]

I'm da polish marine

[Suki]

Originally Posted by Hyakushi

Some people have already killed things such as animals and cleaned them out to eat and there are those who sit down at a computer and preach about what they think is right and wrong by what they are taught is right and wrong.

Are you comparing people to "things such as animals"? Dude! There is a HUGE difference between having to kill in order to survive and picking it as a job, anyway I'm not gonna get all judgemental on your ass, I know you have your reasons why you do what you do and that's something I'm not getting into; but trying to justufy your criminal acts (yeah, criminal. I don't care if the all-wise, all-seeing, all-knowing Government of the United States of America says it is ok to do it, it is still criminal, unconstitutional and unjustified) by saying killing people is the same as killing an animal for food is like backing it up with no arguments whatsoever

Originally Posted by Hyakushi

WHo will survive? those who have bathed in blood or those who only think they have. The answer is obvious.

Wtf?! And you say I am the one that needs to stop watching movies?

I'm not denying that Iraq might have weapons of mass destruction, all I'm saying is that the way the US has failed at everything they have tried to do in that country (because honestly, even now after Saddam's death I don't see it being a stable place) shows that they shouldn't have troops there in the first place, because Bush doesn't give a flying fuck how many people die as a result of the invasion, but he sure cares about what country gets the most oil and that's why he needs to have his ass nearby, in case action is to be taken. So lame.

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by Suki

Are you comparing people to "things such as animals"? Dude! There is a HUGE difference between having to kill in order to survive and picking it as a job, anyway I'm not gonna get all judgemental on your ass, I know you have your reasons why you do what you do and that's something I'm not getting into; but trying to justufy your criminal acts (yeah, criminal. I don't care if the all-wise, all-seeing, all-knowing Government of the United States of America says it is ok to do it, it is still criminal, unconstitutional and unjustified) by saying killing people is the same as killing an animal for food is like backing it up with no arguments whatsoever



Wtf?! And you say I am the one that needs to stop watching movies?

I'm not denying that Iraq might have weapons of mass destruction, all I'm saying is that the way the US has failed at everything they have tried to do in that country (because honestly, even now after Saddam's death I don't see it being a stable place) shows that they shouldn't have troops there in the first place, because Bush doesn't give a flying fuck how many people die as a result of the invasion, but he sure cares about what country gets the most oil and that's why he needs to have his ass nearby, in case action is to be taken. So lame.

Actually Iraq never had WMD's. It was just a big load of bullshit. There's more than plenty of proof against it but noone has been held to task for lying to their respective countries to go to war in Iraq.
I agree with the other stuff you're saying about Iraq though. I just didn't think you'd be the one saying it

[Jaydelart]

Originally Posted by Suki

Are you comparing people to "things such as animals"? Dude! There is a HUGE difference between having to kill in order to survive and picking it as a job, anyway I'm not gonna get all judgemental on your ass, I know you have your reasons why you do what you do and that's something I'm not getting into; but trying to justufy your criminal acts (yeah, criminal. I don't care if the all-wise, all-seeing, all-knowing Government of the United States of America says it is ok to do it, it is still criminal, unconstitutional and unjustified) by saying killing people is the same as killing an animal for food is like backing it up with no arguments whatsoever

Unconstitutional? Unjustified?

That's more the politicians' prerogative; not the soldiers'. So who would be the real criminals?

A soldier, deployed to the battlefield, has every right to fight for his/her life or the life of their comrades.

When a soldier is being shot at, and is forced to engage - and possibly kill - enemy combatants... I'd hardly call it unjustified. Politics becomes irrelevant when there are bullets flying in your direction.
I'm sure, even a civilian can understand that logic.

Also, realize...

Most firefights, these days, aren't started by Coalition forces.
There exists strict Rules of Engagement.


Taking the life of another human-being is never a good thing. But life isn't always simple... Sometimes there is no better option.

[KitsuneFr]

Well,

As french working for MOD as civilian (never could be in military situation because of a little heart weakness called WPW ), I only could agree with ROE. Here in France we had in the past to fight against an enemy who wasn't respecting ROE himself (but I don't want to make a polemic about that, I just want to keep on the historic fact, I won't take any position on it anyway) during 1958-1962. Our troops (mainly airborne and Legion Etrangère) had to do counter terrorism duty due to bombing and civilian killing (no distinction between native and people now seen as colonizer) in a north africa country.

We had to put strict order and hardened ROE because the guys on the other side used all the ways they had to make this a war on terror. As soldiers the most of you you know that ripost would be graduated function of the threat, but you know too that if 75 % of your platoon would be terminated by booby-trap or so, or seeing civilian you have to protect killed by savage manner, you'll feel very angry or stressed and maybe if your officers/platoon commanders are weak it would be a catastrophic violation of ROE.

Anyway, I won't judge, if I was soldier on a battlefield like Iraq or Afghanistan and if so situation would come, I don't how I would react and certainly won't respect ROE myself.

The point of fact that is irritating me is that you have people who don't know anything about war, that would means in geopolitic, human rapports, consequences, and people who never opened an history book and never analysed implications from any conflict, these people are saying to military that they are from bastards to butchers... I can't really stand this.

My father is in the air force, my grand-father was in the air force infantry units in 1958 and had only an old US M3 half-track and GB Sten MkII submachine guns to face FLN mortars and Jerry MG-42, to protect a depot near Oran.

So Marines and Army soldiers, please continue your job well, as the duty must to be done, I know that you'll do your best, and contrary of us in the 50s/60s I expect you wouldn't be sacrificied in vain.



PS: I didn't mind to hurt someome here, I just wanted that as raised in a military family to say to an allied country's soldiers what there're my feelings.
And to finish, if we have here some people from this north african state we were in civil war 50 years before, I tried to be objective and not to attack. It is the historian's duty to historian to respect each camp, and anyway if 50 years after we would play childish dispute about war, I think us french wouldn't talk to germans or even english people. So feel it no attack but just a military situation that NATO troops could see in Afghanistan or US and allied troops in Iraq. The tactical situation seems to be the same that Gen. Massu had to manage 50 years before anyway... And it is for the good of us all that the actual situation would have to ge managed. But I can't judge how it is, good or bad, 'cause that is politic and it is not my duty. My duty is like the US Army or Marines's guys said, just the military point...

[Sangetsu]

I'm always entertained by the ignorance people possess about things such as government, politics, soldiers, and war. Those who claim to know better are usually the most ignorant; they have no knowledge of history, and no understanding of the present or future. They are often educated, frequently emotional, and always unwise. They do not understand that human beings are things of nature, like all other living things, and that all life lives in a state of conflict. These ignorant people usually live protected lives, insulated from the world's hardships, so they are unable to develop a true sense of objectivity about the world and it's ways.

I agree that war is terrible, but it exists, and it always will. But wars rage everywhere. Birds, fish, insects, and other animals fight daily for territory. Your body fights fiercely against microorganisms as you read this post.

That said, I have to admit that the Iraq war was not a good idea. But there is no point now arguing the reasons for or against it, it must be pursued to it's end. To leave now would be to leave a situation worse than that which existed before the war began, and which would probably cause a much greater conflict in the future.

I was in the Army for several years, and I've been to Iraq myself. Those whose only knowledge of the conflict comes from television or the newspapers have no real idea what is going on over there, and cannot have an educated opinion on the subject. And those without an educated opinion should keep their mouths shut.

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

I'm always entertained by the ignorance people possess about things such as government, politics, soldiers, and war. Those who claim to know better are usually the most ignorant; they have no knowledge of history, and no understanding of the present or future. They are often educated, frequently emotional, and always unwise. They do not understand that human beings are things of nature, like all other living things, and that all life lives in a state of conflict. These ignorant people usually live protected lives, insulated from the world's hardships, so they are unable to develop a true sense of objectivity about the world and it's ways.

I agree that war is terrible, but it exists, and it always will. But wars rage everywhere. Birds, fish, insects, and other animals fight daily for territory. Your body fights fiercely against microorganisms as you read this post.

That said, I have to admit that the Iraq war was not a good idea. But there is no point now arguing the reasons for or against it, it must be pursued to it's end. To leave now would be to leave a situation worse than that which existed before the war began, and which would probably cause a much greater conflict in the future.

I was in the Army for several years, and I've been to Iraq myself. Those whose only knowledge of the conflict comes from television or the newspapers have no real idea what is going on over there, and cannot have an educated opinion on the subject. And those without an educated opinion should keep their mouths shut.

Lol what would you call uneducated exactly? I would say that so far people have had a pretty valid opinion about Iraq in this thread even though it isn't really about Iraq at all. You haven't really pointed out anything specific in that area which you find "erroneous".
Being in the army does not mean you know a jot more than anyone else about what goes on in Iraq. On the contrary, you have a much more biased opinion than someone who hasn't been there at all, in terms of a militaristic attitude.
As for leaving and causing a greater conflict, that is the most useless statement i've seen ABOUT Iraq so far. Right now there are people being killed everyday over suicide bombings and internal conflicts caused by the invasion of Iraq. What is the presence of any military force doing to stop it?
Also they are pointing the finger at the US military for using certain weapons and flares which are now causing genetic mutations and defects in new born infants.
What is being done to help?
More than 75% of Iraqis are without water, food and basic living comforts. This illegal war has CAUSED this.
I find it amusing when people like you tell us to "move on" by saying how little we know. It only shows your own ignorance and biased attitude, especially when it is well known what American intentions were before they even took a step into Iraqi territory. The absence of any WMD's just enforces the case against the invasion and all proceedings which took place before it to push for the war.
They were lies.
Do I even have to mention Halliburton and the myriad BS surrounding the issue?

So yes the only semi-valid point you've made is that if the "Allied" troops now left, there might be a greater conflict in the future. There is a possibility that there might be a new uprising and a force which is again unfavourable to the West, may take root in Iraq. Nevermind that the regime already in place was initially put there by the West because of her own interests.
Of course, I would say it would take at least a few decades to even start getting Iraq out of the third world predicament that the bogus war put it in. What you gonna do, seal off that country so noone can get in or out ever again?
Haha, good luck with that.

As for conflict always existing, yadda yadda.. yes it does exist but it's down to human intelligence to avoid conflict.
Outlining the obvious and saying it exists and that we should just "accept" it, once again goes to show us of your biased, militaristic attitude.