any soldiers out there?

[Suki]

Originally Posted by ivi0nk3y

Actually Iraq never had WMD's. It was just a big load of bullshit. There's more than plenty of proof against it

That is something I doubt we'll ever get to know for sure.
Plenty of proof against it? Well, they have not been found so far, however it doesn't mean they're not there hidden somewhere. Unless what you're saying is that the fact that no one has been able to find evidence that proves their existence in the Iraqi territory should be enough for us not to believe it?
(I'd very much like a flat answer to that question )

Originally Posted by ivi0nk3y

I agree with the other stuff you're saying about Iraq though. I just didn't think you'd be the one saying it

Why, cause I'm a US ass-kisser? In spite of that, I cannot help but disagree with the mission they've undertaken. As a democratic world power they ought to know better, I really don't see why they just keep digging into it.

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

human beings are things of nature, like all other living things, and that all life lives in a state of conflict.

Your speech was all philosophical and stuff, a wee bit too influenced by Hobbes' view on Humanity though, and I happen to be more of an Epicurean kinda girl

Anyways, I'm really sad that you think humans are incapable of living in peace and happiness. It is NOT in the human nature to kill individuals that are members of the same species. I mean, competition is a natural consequence of cohabitation, but as far as I know, competition doesn't mean murder.

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

I agree that war is terrible, but it exists, and it always will. But wars rage everywhere. Birds, fish, insects, and other animals fight daily for territory. Your body fights fiercely against microorganisms as you read this post.

lol right. If you wanna go and compare yourself to a bird, a fish or an insect feel free to do it, but don't put us all under the same title, I dare to consider myself superior to them

The reason why animals are in constant conflict with one another is because they have no other way to get to an agreement --> the rule of the fittest. The strongest wins.

I don't believe that fighting is a very rational way to come to a solution to an armed conflict, do you?

[manganimefan227]

Well to all of the soldiers or veternans out there


THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING YOU DO!

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by Suki

That is something I doubt we'll ever get to know for sure.
Plenty of proof against it? Well, they have not been found so far, however it doesn't mean they're not there hidden somewhere. Unless what you're saying is that the fact that no one has been able to find evidence that proves their existence in the Iraqi territory should be enough for us not to believe it?
(I'd very much like a flat answer to that question )

About them "not being hidden somewhere", are you really going to believe the media propaganda which overestimates the power that people like Saddam Hussein or organisations like Al-Qaeda, actually have?
Seriously, where exactly is Saddam Hussein going to hide such weapons. Who does he have working for him to continue to successfully elude the Americans, after his death?
So the flat out answer to your question, is yes.

Originally Posted by Suki

Why, cause I'm a US ass-kisser? In spite of that, I cannot help but disagree with the mission they've undertaken. As a democratic world power they ought to know better, I really don't see why they just keep digging into it.

Indeed.

[Acidreptile]

Originally Posted by Jaydelart

I didn't know you were a marine, Hyakushi.
I've got plans for the U.S.M.C., myself.



I understand what you mean, Suki, but you know, a soldier doesn't necessarily choose why he (or she) is going to war. You are a soldier first; A politician second -- maybe.

It's a bit of a cliché, but I can only simply describe it as the Warrior's Spirit.

Makes sense.

Unlike "Certain People" around here.

[fluffy0000]

Hyakushi is not a marine but a 'wanna be'. As a sidewalk commando on a mission - with a fetish for 'training men' in exotic martial arts and frequenting public restrooms to meet new friends. Hyakushi your a 'closet gay nazi'. embrace your gayness.

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by ivi0nk3y

Lol what would you call uneducated exactly? I would say that so far people have had a pretty valid opinion about Iraq in this thread even though it isn't really about Iraq at all. You haven't really pointed out anything specific in that area which you find "erroneous".
Being in the army does not mean you know a jot more than anyone else about what goes on in Iraq. On the contrary, you have a much more biased opinion than someone who hasn't been there at all, in terms of a militaristic attitude.
As for leaving and causing a greater conflict, that is the most useless statement i've seen ABOUT Iraq so far. Right now there are people being killed everyday over suicide bombings and internal conflicts caused by the invasion of Iraq. What is the presence of any military force doing to stop it?
Also they are pointing the finger at the US military for using certain weapons and flares which are now causing genetic mutations and defects in new born infants.
What is being done to help?
More than 75% of Iraqis are without water, food and basic living comforts. This illegal war has CAUSED this.
I find it amusing when people like you tell us to "move on" by saying how little we know. It only shows your own ignorance and biased attitude, especially when it is well known what American intentions were before they even took a step into Iraqi territory. The absence of any WMD's just enforces the case against the invasion and all proceedings which took place before it to push for the war.
They were lies.
Do I even have to mention Halliburton and the myriad BS surrounding the issue?

So yes the only semi-valid point you've made is that if the "Allied" troops now left, there might be a greater conflict in the future. There is a possibility that there might be a new uprising and a force which is again unfavourable to the West, may take root in Iraq. Nevermind that the regime already in place was initially put there by the West because of her own interests.
Of course, I would say it would take at least a few decades to even start getting Iraq out of the third world predicament that the bogus war put it in. What you gonna do, seal off that country so noone can get in or out ever again?
Haha, good luck with that.

As for conflict always existing, yadda yadda.. yes it does exist but it's down to human intelligence to avoid conflict.
Outlining the obvious and saying it exists and that we should just "accept" it, once again goes to show us of your biased, militaristic attitude.

You are the poster child of the ignorance I speak of. "Human intelligence"? That is the biggest irony of them all. It is because of "human intelligence" that wars are presently as horrible as they are.

"Illegal war"? Tell me, what is exactly is a "legal" war? You seem to forget that the president and both houses of congress voted for the war. You also don't seem to realize how great the powers of the president are. In matters of national security, real or supposed, if the president is of an opinion that an action is legal, then it is legal. Why do you think that the several attempts to introduce articles of impeachment have failed?

And if the war were voted for unanimously by every person in the country, would that make it "legal"? Other countries might not agree.

Biased I might be, but stupid I am not.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

You are the poster child of the ignorance I speak of. "Human intelligence"? That is the biggest irony of them all. It is because of "human intelligence" that wars are presently as horrible as they are.

"Illegal war"? Tell me, what is exactly is a "legal" war? You seem to forget that the president and both houses of congress voted for the war. You also don't seem to realize how great the powers of the president are. In matters of national security, real or supposed, if the president is of an opinion that an action is legal, then it is legal. Why do you think that the several attempts to introduce articles of impeachment have failed?

And if the war were voted for unanimously by every person in the country, would that make it "legal"? Other countries might not agree.

Biased I may be, but stupid I am not.

Wait.. you put the ultimate cause of war on human intelligence? How so? I would argue that human intelligence is our only hope to outgrow violence.

As for the Iraq war... It's termed illegal because it violates INTERNATIONAL law. However I really don't respect International law because the world seems uninterested in enforcing such laws.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

You are the poster child of the ignorance I speak of. "Human intelligence"? That is the biggest irony of them all. It is because of "human intelligence" that wars are presently as horrible as they are.

"Illegal war"? Tell me, what is exactly is a "legal" war? You seem to forget that the president and both houses of congress voted for the war. You also don't seem to realize how great the powers of the president are. In matters of national security, real or supposed, if the president is of an opinion that an action is legal, then it is legal. Why do you think that the several attempts to introduce articles of impeachment have failed?

And if the war were voted for unanimously by every person in the country, would that make it "legal"? Other countries might not agree.

Biased I might be, but stupid I am not.

There's an easy answer for why the war is illegal. Bush was required to prove to the Congress that Iraq was in violation of UN Resolutions by still being in possession of wmd's, and secondly, that Iraq was behind 9-11. Both of these claims have since been disproved and discredited. So, that's the easy answer for why it's an illegal war. So, as you've pointed out, it was voted for, but the war that happened isn't what was voted for.

As for the human intellegence thing. Do you honestly think that humans aren't intellegent enough to sort out problems without using violence? or did you miss ivonkey's point?

[Acidreptile]

Originally Posted by noodle

There's an easy answer for why the war is illegal. Bush was required to prove to the Congress that Iraq was in violation of UN Resolutions by still being in possession of wmd's, and secondly, that Iraq was behind 9-11. Both of these claims have since been disproved and discredited. So, that's the easy answer for why it's an illegal war. So, as you've pointed out, it was voted for, but the war that happened isn't what was voted for.

As for the human intellegence thing. Do you honestly think that humans aren't intellegent enough to sort out problems without using violence? or did you miss ivonkey's point?

Humans can solve any problem without using violence.

They don't seen to want to do that tough.

So let's use the violence anyways.

"Peace sells.But who's buying?"

[noodle]

Originally Posted by KitsuneFr

Well,

As french working for MOD as civilian (never could be in military situation because of a little heart weakness called WPW ), I only could agree with ROE. ..........................................................


TOO LONG TO QUOTE...............

I didn't understand most of what you said tbh, so I doubt I can take any offense from it. hehe... but I certainly hope you're not justifying what the french done. The only thing I will say is that, of course, during a battle, the last thing you think about is human rights or violating so and so rules, but overall, in a war, you should consider what you're doing or what the plan is. If that wern't the case, then the US could have won the Iraq war a long time ago... simply drop a couple A-bombs and destroy the whole country. Thank heavans that it isn't like that, and even if the US government break rules and can be inhumain, at least they are still human enough not to destroy a whole civilastion... I doubt that made sense, but the point is, during a battle, it's understandable for a soldier to do whatever he wishes to survive, but an overall war, there is time for the "leaders" to make the better choice... And btw, the french didn't make the right choice at all... The Algerian war colonisation is a horrible spot in french history, and I'd be totally shocked if anyone denied it.