"White anti-feminist men in Japan"

[Wasabista]

Many men did not want women to have the vote. If they just gave it to us, then the suffragettes would not have existed. Feminists are not all women, many men are also feminists too, and were also very supportive of the suffragettes. It was not a case of men vs women, it was a case of them vs authority who believed that women's opinions were less valid and were less intelligent, therefore making their vote innaccurate. This is obviously not the case. After a long struggle, many protests, and hunger strikes, the women finally did get the vote. After a women chucked herself under the kings horse to draw attention to the cause. We did not just get it like that.

Miss Misa, can you explain how women suffered more than men did in preindustrial societies? Remember, feminism is RECENT. History tells us of slave revolts, peasant revolts, revolts of conquered provinces against conquering countries. Female revolts against men? Not a whisper until about 1880.

So what do you make of that?

Are you telling me women are cowards, people of no account, who wanted to rebel but had no courage to do so, and only waited until it was easy? (That's certainly not my view.)

Or should we conclude that women never rebelled because, compared to their men dying on the battlefield every day, they had a good, relatively safe life, and they knew it. (That is my view.)

Take your pick.

[MissMisa]

Originally Posted by Wasabista

Miss Misa, can you explain how women suffered more than men did in preindustrial societies? Remember, feminism is RECENT. History tells us of slave revolts, peasant revolts, revolts of conquered provinces against conquering countries. Female revolts against men? Not a whisper until about 1880.

So what do you make of that?

Are you telling me women are cowards, people of no account, who wanted to rebel but had no courage to do so, and only waited until it was easy? (That's certainly not my view.)

Or should we conclude that women never rebelled because, compared to their men dying on the battlefield every day, they had a good, relatively safe life, and they knew it. (That is my view.)

Take your pick.

I didn't say that women suffered more than men. I said they suffered.

[kireikoori]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I usually find that the word "feminism" is used to push some form of female superiority... Otherwise why not refer to it as egalitarian?

I suppose because of a few reasons.
1. Because feminists started the idea toward gender equality.
2. Because just saying egalitarianism or equalism alone is not specific enough.
When you say egalitarianism or equalism, you could be talking about anything.
When you say feminism, you know you're talking about gender equality.
3. If you say gender egalitarianism or equalism, well that's just too long an inconvenient.

[MissMisa]

Originally Posted by JoshAussie

So you know i wasnt going to post on here but ended up doing it anyway. Anyway. ><. ----- Just to this bit.

In countries where feminism is needed there are generally going to be worse things going on to which women and men could help out. Why do we need feminists to stick up for women in other countries when both men and women "generally" need help. Its like "well weve got everything we want... what are we going to bitch about now?" I dont think we need women to stick up for women in other countries where bad things are happening because im sure many men would also take it upon themselves to try and help. But by being feminist to me it comes accross as being slightly sexist. (only when feminists are sticking up for women in other countries.) because the men need help aswell.. There sticking up for "equality" for women in other countries but arent doing it the right way at all because they are not thinking of everybody.

Now i cant word my posts as well as Nyororin and/or MMM but i hope everyone gets the idea. We dont need feminists. Women in developed countries should (i think) have all there "rights" which i tried to explain before. And we dont need them to stick up for women in other countries because not only women need the help.

Well in some places in the middle east, it is bad for men but way worse for women. They are regularly abused by their husbands, they don't really have a right to education and they don't have any choices and no open doors. I'm not saying we should concentrate on women, and fuck the men, there are orgnisations that help both genders, but feminism is just concentrating the womens rights.

Women care about women in other countries. They see women suffering and they want to do something. I don't think that's a bad thing at all.

Feminists can't do everything. They are only concentrating on gender equality - that's what they stand for. It doesn't mean they don't give a fuck about anything else, a person can be two things at once. It's like people campaigning for black rights, it doesn't mean they are only thinking of black people and don't give a fuck about other races.

[Wasabista]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

I didn't say that women suffered more than men. I said they suffered.

So women suffered no more than men (much less, truth be known), yet men were the oppressors and women the oppressed? I don't understand.

[MissMisa]

Originally Posted by Wasabista

So women suffered no more than men (much less, truth be known), yet men were the oppressors and women the oppressed? I don't understand.

I didn't even said men were the oppressors. However, all men aren't the same person, the same as all women aren't the same person. There have been women opressors and men opressors. Just seems like there have been more men. Feminism is not women being oppressed by men. It's women being a oppressed in any way, by anything, be it society's views as a whole, the government, dictators, or anything else that might have an impact in a women's right to choose the same path as a man. It is not, and never has been, women whining about men. If you think that's the case, you clearly have the wrong impression of what feminism is.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

It is not, and never has been, women whining about men. If you think that's the case, you clearly have the wrong impression of what feminism is.

But unfortunately, we aren`t the only ones who have this "wrong" idea about what feminism is.

Defending feminism ends up feeling like defending communism. Yes, the ideas at the core are not bad ideas. The people who thought of them and started the movements did wonderful things for their people... But does it work in the real world? No. Is that the fault of the initial leaders? The fault of those who truly believe in the cause and core?
No.
It`s the misinterpretation and exploitation of the system by others. By the majority.

I dislike feminism because the word has come to represent not the core thoughts and ideals, but the general expression of the movement by the majority. And that majority is not going about it in the right way.
Of course those who are at the core, who remain true to the ideals are just fine. But they`re not the majority, and they aren`t what represents feminism in my eyes.

The meaning of words change over time - feminism is shifting from meaning equality to being a shield for misandry.

Where are all the feminists who believe in equality when a man is wronged in favor of a woman? Where are they all when women cheat, lie, and steal from their husbands - then go on to be awarded the house, car, and kids just because, well, they`re the "weak" woman who needs it to live?
The women I have known in my life who have called themselves feminists used it as nothing more than a title to declare that they were "conquering" men. To me, that is what feminism represents - and it is not something I will ever say I support.

[MissMisa]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

But unfortunately, we aren`t the only ones who have this "wrong" idea about what feminism is.

Defending feminism ends up feeling like defending communism. Yes, the ideas at the core are not bad ideas. The people who thought of them and started the movements did wonderful things for their people... But does it work in the real world? No. Is that the fault of the initial leaders? The fault of those who truly believe in the cause and core?
No.
It`s the misinterpretation and exploitation of the system by others. By the majority.

I dislike feminism because the word has come to represent not the core thoughts and ideals, but the general expression of the movement by the majority. And that majority is not going about it in the right way.
Of course those who are at the core, who remain true to the ideals are just fine. But they`re not the majority, and they aren`t what represents feminism in my eyes.

The meaning of words change over time - feminism is shifting from meaning equality to being a shield for misandry.

Where are all the feminists who believe in equality when a man is wronged in favor of a woman? Where are they all when women cheat, lie, and steal from their husbands - then go on to be awarded the house, car, and kids just because, well, they`re the "weak" woman who needs it to live?
The women I have known in my life who have called themselves feminists used it as nothing more than a title to declare that they were "conquering" men. To me, that is what feminism represents - and it is not something I will ever say I support.

Well since you are obviously aware that kind of feminism is not actually the point, nor is it feminism at all, then there is no point in me trying to convince you otherwise. I am one of the people you are describing, who do believe in equality when a man is wronged too. I don't know how many people are like me, and I can't speak for them.

[kireikoori]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

The women I have known in my life who have called themselves feminists used it as nothing more than a title to declare that they were "conquering" men. To me, that is what feminism represents - and it is not something I will ever say I support.

Well I believe all those women are not feminists.

[Alkindus]

Originally Posted by kireikoori

Well I believe all those women are not feminists.

Yes just like I believe that a ´terrorist´ can never be muslim so there is no such thing as ´islamic´ terrorism and that zionists can never be jewish......

I never understood that people acknowledge that they are not what they claim they are yet still prefer calling ´them´ that what they are absolutely not...´hey what you stand for and do really has nothing to do with communism, but I still consider you a communist though´ (insert feminism etc) that kind of twisted logic really doesn´t make any sense.

basically you(not you but others) just keep the ignorancy alive.