Korean Nationals in Japan

[Nyororin]

Moved from the Gaijin term discussion thread.

Originally Posted by Wasabista

Further to Ronin's point about race vs. nationality, notice how the two are skewed in Japan. There are Koreans living here, whom I insist on calling "kankokukei nihonjin" to the bewilderment of my hosts, who are here because their grandparents were abducted and forced to work here. Born in Japan, born to parents born to Japan, they are unable to get Japanese nationality or passports. This situation would never arise in another advanced country. So these people are fingerprinted because they are "foreigners," but really they are nothing of the sort, or would never be so considered if any kind of sense prevailed.

Racial discrimination with a fig leaf of nationality.

Okay - I`ll hop into this one.

How many of these Korean nationals have you directly spoken to about their nationality situation? Because, you know what, I have spoken to quite a few - one of my best friends in high school was a "Korean-Japanese" of the sort you refer to, and did not have Japanese citizenship. He was MORE than happy to talk about it to no end.

Japanese Immigration PUSHES CONSTANTLY to give these people citizenship. There are huge drives, all fees waivered, instant approval, Japanese passport within the WEEK.

But you know what, most of them choose NOT to take Japanese citizenship. Why? Because they would lose the massive benefits given to them for being Koreans in Japan. You know, the free housing, government paid trips to Korea, specialized subsidized schooling, government benefits (think full paycheck) for everyone over 12, automatic company placement, reduced taxes, completely subsidized health care.... I could go on and on and on. The Japanese government would LOVE to have them all take Japanese citizenship. But I think it`s pretty clear why a large number of them won`t, don`t you think? If I made 250,000/month and got free housing, healthcare, schooling, etc on top of it - I wouldn`t want to give it up either.

The "Japan won`t give them citizenship!" is a big myth. It`s more like "The Japanese government can`t make them take Japanese citizenship".

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Wasabista

Well, f**k a duck, I didn't know that.
Yes, I missed Nyororin's post earlier.

Well, I have other reasons to see a lot of racism in this country...but that's good enough for me as far as genealogy is concerned. Thanks for the word up, Nyororin.

I feel a lot better now that I know I just wasn`t being ignored.

I will add a bit to what I said - Obviously, it`s not all a financial issue with every Korean-Japanese in Japan. It also has to do with the fact that Japan does not allow dual citizenship. In the past, Japan has stated that it would like to simply grant Japanese citizenship to these people by default... But it cannot do so because that would, in effect, be forcing them to give up their Korean citizenship. That is why it has to be a completely voluntary process. There is movement in the Japanese-Korean community to try and get the Japanese government to make an exception for them, and let them keep their both citizenships. But if Japan were to make an exception, they`d have to make an exception for everyone, and so on... So the myth is born that Japan refuses to give them citizenship, no matter how long they`ve lived in Japan.

If you ever visit the immigration office, take a look around. There are usually tons of posters to that effect - with slogans to the effect of "Let`s become a citizen of the country you were born in and live in!" etc.

[Wasabista]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

If you ever visit the immigration office, take a look around. There are usually tons of posters to that effect - with slogans to the effect of "Let`s become a citizen of the country you were born in and live in!" etc.

Ignore you? Heck no!

Follow-up question: Why does the government lavish the Korean community with the subsidies you described? Is it related to war reparations treaties?

And if they're male South Korean citizens, aren't they up for compulsory military service?

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Wasabista

Ignore you? Heck no!

Follow-up question: Why does the government lavish the Korean community with the subsidies you described? Is it related to war reparations treaties?

And if they're male South Korean citizens, aren't they up for compulsory military service?

I can`t say I know too much in depth about the reasons behind the subsidies - but I would imagine that they are related to the war. The Japanese-Korean community in Japan is often VERY outspoken, and about half the time it`s not in a pleasant manner. While I agree that there should be something done, there comes a point when you just end up rolling your eyes when some Japanese-Korean family is throwing a fit because the government refused to pay for a family vacation to Europe for them.
It`s a sort of victim complex... And because of the tensions left from war time, Japan just sort of bends to their every whim. For regular Japanese citizens, this is indeed flat out painful, as there is often not money enough to go around for disability benefits, retirement, etc... But plenty enough to buy a house with a yard, in nice areas, for any Japanese-Korean who asks. Not to mention that the percentage who were actually brought to Japan forcefully is surprisingly low. Most of the current Japanese-Korean population in Japan came over after the war... But still get all the benefits, as the outspoken community uses the argument of "If Korea hadn`t been touched by Japan, our ancestors may not have decided to leave the country to look for work in Japan", and "If Japan hadn`t had a better economy, then it would not have seemed an appealing place."
And anyone who says "Wait a second - why do they get a free car, but I can`t get a wheelchair?" is labeled racist by the outspoken groups in Japan, and by all of South Korea (which seems to be waiting to pounce on anything to make Japan look like a bad place).

As for military service - I really have no idea. I am going to make a guess that they still have to serve it, as it looks like there isn`t an easy way to be exempted from it. Maybe the free trips to Korea have to do with this?

[blimp]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I can`t say I know too much in depth about the reasons behind the subsidies - but I would imagine that they are related to the war. The Japanese-Korean community in Japan is often VERY outspoken, and about half the time it`s not in a pleasant manner. While I agree that there should be something done, there comes a point when you just end up rolling your eyes when some Japanese-Korean family is throwing a fit because the government refused to pay for a family vacation to Europe for them.
It`s a sort of victim complex... And because of the tensions left from war time, Japan just sort of bends to their every whim. For regular Japanese citizens, this is indeed flat out painful, as there is often not money enough to go around for disability benefits, retirement, etc... But plenty enough to buy a house with a yard, in nice areas, for any Japanese-Korean who asks. Not to mention that the percentage who were actually brought to Japan forcefully is surprisingly low. Most of the current Japanese-Korean population in Japan came over after the war... But still get all the benefits, as the outspoken community uses the argument of "If Korea hadn`t been touched by Japan, our ancestors may not have decided to leave the country to look for work in Japan", and "If Japan hadn`t had a better economy, then it would not have seemed an appealing place."
And anyone who says "Wait a second - why do they get a free car, but I can`t get a wheelchair?" is labeled racist by the outspoken groups in Japan, and by all of South Korea (which seems to be waiting to pounce on anything to make Japan look like a bad place).

As for military service - I really have no idea. I am going to make a guess that they still have to serve it, as it looks like there isn`t an easy way to be exempted from it. Maybe the free trips to Korea have to do with this?

slightly off-topic
nyororin,
do u know where one can read more about this, as i together with some of my friends didn't know about this, the monetary benefits i mean? and just to clarify who pays? the japanese or the korean government?

in theory the koreans nationals would have to give up their korean nationality too even if japan allowed dual or multiple citizenship as south korea too doesn't allow dual or multiple citizenship. i don't know about north korea though.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by blimp

slightly off-topic
nyororin,
do u know where one can read more about this, as i together with some of my friends didn't know about this, the monetary benefits i mean? and just to clarify who pays? the japanese or the korean government?

in theory the koreans nationals would have to give up their korean nationality too even if japan allowed dual or multiple citizenship as south korea too doesn't allow dual or multiple citizenship. i don't know about north korea though.

I don`t know about any sites in English, but a search on 在日韓国人 / 在日朝鮮人 + 社会保障 will bring up quite a lot in Japanese. It looks like the amount of benefits given depends a lot upon the area, with some offering free everything - and others only offering more reasonable assistance.

The Japanese government pays. Both up front, and through various back routes to skirt several laws and limitations. (Paying to organizations which distribute the money, etc.) For example - with schooling, the Japanese government bars using public funds to pay for anything other than regular public schooling - ie. nothing to special interest/religious/ethnic/etc schools... To get around this, they don`t pay anything to the schools themselves... Instead, the government gives school related tax breaks and does a sort of "pay back" for tuition paid to these schools. In effect, they are funding the schools by paying the students the price of the tuition.

[Wasabista]

Nyororin, that's certainly what I'd assumed -- I thought every one of the Koreans here came over during the war, or was descended from someone who was. That's definitely an eye-opener for me.

Sounds a bit like the situation in Puerto Rico -- there's a minority agitating for independence, and a larger minority pushing to make PR the 51st state, but mostly people like the status quo. They can't vote in federal elections, but they get loads of subsidies.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Wasabista

Nyororin, that's certainly what I'd assumed -- I thought every one of the Koreans here came over during the war, or was descended from someone who was. That's definitely an eye-opener for me.

Sounds a bit like the situation in Puerto Rico -- there's a minority agitating for independence, and a larger minority pushing to make PR the 51st state, but mostly people like the status quo. They can't vote in federal elections, but they get loads of subsidies.

I can`t say I`m familiar with the case of Puerto Rico, but it sound somewhat similar.

A lot of Japanese feel sort of threatened by the Japanese-Korean community in Japan because... well, they want the rights of citizenship without the responsibilities. They want to continue to receive benefits while gaining the right to vote and hold office - all without actually taking citizenship. It seems that the larger chunk of them hold allegiance to North Korea, and support that country over Japan. Even now, without voting rights, they put all their power behind supporting candidates who offer them more benefits and who support North Korea - Something that really isn`t in the best interests of Japan.

This is one of the reasons why Aso is loved by a lot of Japanese - and at the same time has such a horrific reputation outside of Japan. He told them off, suggesting that perhaps it would be better to put Japan`s people first rather that those who are happy to take benefits and send them abroad (But that they were completely welcome to take citizenship)... and has brushed off Asahi Shinbun (which is well known for making up stories supporting "Asian interest" in Japan, and publishing some outright shocking columns.) The international community, somehow largely oblivious to the background thanks to the extremely vocal nature of some of the Korean community, takes this as a sign that bad times are in store for foreigners in Japan.

I think he`s great.

[StangGuy]

I have a related question to this. How are Korean nationals allowed to stay in Japan? Are the automatically given permanent residency or must they apply for Visas and/or PR? I've always wondered about that since I learned of the Japanese born Korean population.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by StangGuy

I have a related question to this. How are Korean nationals allowed to stay in Japan? Are the automatically given permanent residency or must they apply for Visas and/or PR? I've always wondered about that since I learned of the Japanese born Korean population.

I don`t know for certain, but I imagine it`s similar to others with PR. You register your baby when it is born with the proper authorities - and a visa is granted.