I still don't think that anime, manga or video games are defining. But they are modern!

What are you trying to say?

So if I like the music, the movies, the art, the litterature, the fashion, etc. Produced by Japanese people of today, I don't like the "real" Japan?

That Japan has a modern, accessible culture, that is different from the culture of other parts of the world. Something that you questioned at the start of the thread.

instead of writing about how you despise people who, you think, dont like japan, then why not start a post for those interested in things other than anime,manga,jrock,etc and youll see that everyone here are not just interested in those things. one reason i love japan is its castles like himeji castle. a friend i met on here is into the japanese underground music scene. they are very creative and well coordinated when it comes to music and dance. you wouldnt stereotype a mexican about him hanging out in front of home depot, so why would you stereotype people who love japan?

We're not talking about that.

And we're not trying to prove that "we love Japan more than you you and you." I don't even "love Japan" - no one who hasn't lived in Japan can claim that they do.

The problem is, people say they "love Japan", when really they're trying to say "I love anime, manga, Visual Kei and Harajuku fashion" - it's almost always these four, and they always say they "love Japan".

So you started this because of a simple misunderstanding. That's alright.

I'm just saying that many people act as if Japan is sooooo strange and different. The reality is that Japan is no stranger or more different than any other country in this world - there are just dull people who believe that it is.

Let's get back to the original point - why does Japan attract such freaks and weirdos with an obsessive following?

Whether we like it or not, animes and mangas is not the heart of Japan. Japan has been a strong country even before JRock and Animes were thought about. Yes, Anime is one of Japan's most wonderful creation, I appreciate anime. What I don't appreciate is when people appreciate it more than the country's history and background. Japan has a wonderful history and people ignore it because of music and cartoons.

Excuse me, what? I have never claimed that I dislike people who dislike Japan, neither have I professed some love for Japan.

No one is talking about loving Japan, the thread was about why Japan attracts "weirdos". I came with a theory that it's because it has a modern culture that is different, and easy to access.

superheel then came with the claim that you don't like the real Japan unless you appreciate it's history. I claim that you can like the modern Japan, be ignorant about the history, and still like Japan.

I started what? You asked what was different about Japan, I provided an answer. You didn't like that particular part of the culture and therefor dismissed it. I still claim that modern Japanese culture is different, and easy to access, that's the difference between Japanese culture, and the culture of many other countries, that it's modern and easy to access, while being different.

Your answer isn't very good. Every culture in the world is different. I can't think of any that are difficult to access - if you're saying it's easy because you can watch Japanese cartoons online, you can also watch British TV online, movies from any country, etc.

This doesn't explain why the perverts and weirdos "love Japan".

Go to Japan today, and you are likely to see more JRock and anime, than samurais. To claim that, that is not the "real" Japan, is pretentious at best. It would be sad if people thought that the country was founded by a bunch of pink-haired cartoonists, but I doubt you will find many cases where that is true.

first qoute: you couldve fooled me

second qoute: wtf? i didnt say that. i dont say "Sooo" its kinda weird.

First, provide me with an example where I am implying that I dislike people who dislike Japan? I you find one, I'll be happy to apologize and explain myself.

Second was a misquote, it was supposed to be Keaton421, I am sorry about that.

Culture runs deeper than the country's ancient warriors. And it definitely runs deeper than cartoons and pop-rock - these things are called Pop Culture. Many of y'all believe culture is only what you see when you walk down the street. There are other aspects to culture, such as beliefs, values, locations, legends... the list goes on.

its not really what your writing but how you explain it that gave me the feeling that you didnt like people who love elements of japanese culture. mostly where you said you'll see more anime and jrock,than samurai. like maybe you have some bad ju ju against people liking it more than their own history and culture. if im wrong about this my bad.

Every culture is different, I can agree with that, and have never claimed otherwise. I still think that when it comes to deviation, and accessibility, Japanese culture would be at the top. The difference between cultures in the west, contra the Japanese is not equally wide, but the access to it is almost equal. Because of the larger difference I believe that people who take a liking to Japanese culture, are more likely to be deviant in other parts of their life. The reason why it is rather Japanese culture than Zimbabwean, I believe is down to accessibility.

The perverts are probably explained in MMMs post. Are all the "weirdos" perverts?

We've finally quit beating around the bush :D

What makes Japanese culture so different from the others? Every culture has its strange and unique parts. E-ve-ry one. The idea that Japan is more different and more strange is a stereotype perpetuated by hack writers and dull people.

What makes Japanese culture so accessible?

And no, all weirdos are not perverts. But all perverts are weirdos! And many pop-culture things that come out of Japan are highly sexualized.

Yes it does, I still think that appreciating pop culture, while not liking more historical culture, is a valid reason to appreciate a country.

If that is how I came across, then I am sorry, it was not my intention. I don't, however, see it. I believe that you can like Japan for whatever reason you want, and that claims like, that if you don't like certain things/all things about Japan, you don't like the real Japan, is pretentious.

Modern western culture, I believe, is a lot more homogeneous, than for example modern American and modern Japanese culture. I don't believe that Japanese culture is soooo different, that is words that you have been using, or that it is completely unique.

The fact that Japan, unlike many African countries for example, is more developed. So we can still recognize it, but it's still different. It's more different than the modern culture of different European countries, or the USA. It is also easier, in my experience, to come into contact with through the internet, than the culture of other Asian, African or South American nations. I might have missed something, though.

Just so we're straight:

Culture: a shared, learned, symbolic system of values, beliefs and attitudes that shapes and influences perception and behavior -- an abstract "mental blueprint" or "mental code."

Pop Culture: contemporary lifestyle and items that are well known and generally accepted



1) Modern Western culture is homogenous? Are you saying that American culture is similar all over the country, or that most Western cultures are the same? Neither are true.

Have you forgotten the fact that Japan has borrowed a ton of things from China? One could easily say that the Asian cultures are homogenous.

2) Ease of access? I can agree that it's easy to watch Japanese cartoons or listen to Japanese music on the internet. But that's pop-culture. Developed or un-developed, there are vast quantities of information on every country on Earth.

What?


EDIT: Plus, you still haven't explained why Japan attracts the freaks and geeks. By your logic, let's take England - it's "more different" than Asian countries, and its TV shows are easy to watch online - Is there a big subculture of Asian weirdos and losers that are absolutely obsessed with English pop-culture?

Here's my theory: Japan is a leader in "nerdy" technology, such as robots and artificial women. The anime shows plenty of panty shots (for the boys) and effeminate, kissing boys (for the girls). Anime also depicts nerdy guys getting the girl. These factors come together to make lonely nerds believe that Japan is some kind of sexual paradise, and one where they will be accepted and revered, even though they were hated in their home country. This is why they make no effort to learn the Japanese language, or about Japanese culture - they've found all they want to know about within anime and Jrock!

First of all, it's not pretentious. And I'm not the only one in this forum who believes that way. Anime and JRock is just a fraction of what Japan really is. There's alot of people who claims they love Japan, but what they meant is they just love Animes and these effeminate looking guys. Those people wouldnt even bother to explore other things Japan can offer aside from mangas and musicians. How can you people say they like a country without liking it's history? You may say a person can like Japan even he or she ignores and wouldnt give a damn about it's history, that's absolutley wrong. A person may think he loves to eat a whole roast of chicken but in reality he only eats the wings and thinks that other parts doesnt taste good, can you say that that guy loves to eat a whole chicken roast? If you'd just think of the chicken as Japan.

For some reason you leave out some words when you read, making you absolutely impossible to talk to. It's not the same, but there are generally more similarities between different countries in the west, than between western countries and Japan.

That changes nothing.

You are trying to prove a point by claiming that pop-culture is not culture. That is both wrong, and ignorant.

I believe that a deviant culture might, to a higher degree, attract deviant people.

Perhaps, I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but it doesn't in fact contradict what I have been saying.


I give up, because you have no interest in listening to what I'm saying.

I believe that you can like a country for whatever reason you like. I like my country because of the social security, the freedom, some of the music, the food and a lot of the people, among other things. I couldn't give a toss about vikings or mad kings trying to conquer Europe.

The differences between Russia and America are just as profound as between Spain and Japan.

What I'm saying is, why doesn't this work the other way? If Asian cultures are so different from ours, is there an entire army of Asian people obsessed with German Pop Culture?

My father got his PhD in sociology. He also agrees that culture and pop-culture are two very different things. Culture is a shared system of beliefs, history, and mindset passed from one generation to another. Pop culture is whatever is popular in the media at the moment. That's an empirical fact, and you're trying to argue with me about the definitions of words. This is not just an argument of "people like different things." Sometimes, Pop Culture almost becomes culture, or even changes it, but it is extremely rare.

There is no such thing as a "deviant culture". Seeing as how Japan is not part of America's social norms, we cannot judge them as deviant - weird, sure, deviant, no. Sorry, I just had to argue with semantics there. But I can understand what you're saying, that a country where "perversion" and nerdiness are more acceptable will attract those types of people.

Besides, you've never explained to me what, exactly, is so weird and different about Japan! You're only saying "it's weird and different"

It's sad to hear that you don't care about Swedish history, cause it's really cool stuff! But you live in your country, and you experience many parts of it, from the second you wake up til the minute you fall asleep - even while you're sleeping, your country affects you! - so if you love or hate your country, your opinion is very valid. An example of an invalid opinion is an otaku who's heard about maid cafes and watched some anime and says "I love Japan." There's a big difference.

I agree completely, picture this, you go to japan, and get into a conversation whit a local and you say oh I love your culture. and they ask you what about it? oh J pop, J rock, and anime. that's it, well I assure you are going to look prety ignorant.

I... sort of consider myself a weirdo..... and I say that I "love japan" but after reading though this discussion I really can't say that I really "love it". I know that I wanna learn more about japan but I don't know where to start. I don't know too much about the history except for some things about samurai but I don't know much about how Japan became what it is today.

I guess one of the real things that attract me to Japanese people right now is the power of their will and motivation I think? I guess I get envious about this idea and how I'm not too motivated in lot's of things I do.

This might not really add much to this discussion but maybe I can learn something new from interaction. This thread seems too interesting to ignore.

That's what you believe in, I have no problem with that, I repect that. But it just doesnt work that way.

SUCCESS! I'm glad we could provide a learning environment for you (that's job #1), and I'm glad you're being honest with yourself, that takes guts. You won't really be able to say you love Japan until you've there lived like one of its people, but maybe you'll learn something on your way there!

Hey man, I'm glad you responded! There are many ways you could get involved with Japanese culture! The best way, of course, is to visit the country. If you can't do that, there are some good books on Japanese culture, and lots of books in its history! Start with japan-guide.com, browse through some articles on culture, and if something catches your eye, do some deeper research! Good luck man

I'm glad that Japanforum has such a learning environment. Lot's of other forums i've been sifting through that I thought had japanese culture to learn about in them were just all the usual Anime, Manga and Videogames thing and well it just... all the same discussions on " What's your fave manga" and similar. :/

I do hope to visit Japan one day. I just need to get life straightened here first a bit ^_^;. I remember I got some notes from people here last time i was active about planning a trip there.



For the books on Japanese culture... do you recommend any titles? I'll also be definitely checking out that site as well. Too bad it's late where I am right now but... I tend to remember things better when i look up something before sleeping so right now might be the best time for me to look some things up.

Thanks for the great response :D!

I can call my self a "weirdo" but not a "Japan loving, pocky eating manga reading weirdo" haha, but I remember when i was in H.S. and gained interest in Japan, watching shows on history channel and Travel, and checking books out the library. I was crazy obssesive about learning about Japan I kno a few things and now I want to learn the language of course so. I like this site because it gives me insight and everything. and I think every country has its weirdo's but there's something about Japan that I dont know maybe the fact that that there up on the trends and always creating new technology that always attracts the wierdo's, but one day I wanna visit. ^_^

Go find the book "The Crysanthemum (spelling?) and the sword"

becasue it is a very independant country in its ways of style and stuff, its just cool.
and i love anime becasue i have also liked cartoons :)

Interesting theory.... I guess it makes sense if you agree that there are a number of "foriegn weirdo's" out there who are into Japanese things.

Though would neo-nazi's count as German obsessed?

I think if they did then the German obsessed people are more of a danger than J-pop-culture obsessed people.

I'd say so, yeah. But they're more Hitler obsessed than German. Because...not all Germans are like that. (Except maybe the Turkish people get them angry for flocking to their country.) But other than that none of the Germans I know or have met are like that at all.
But go to Mitsuwa and most of the white people there are otaku dressed all crazy and fanboy/fangirl-ish.
Y'know?

Many foreigners like the Japanese Traditional Culture and Folklore
 

What foreigners like? I do not agree with the Japanese comics and animation is part of the culture. This is just the business part of them. I am very fond of traditional Japanese things. Mylote:D r

Strangely people have been obsessed with 'the orient' for centuries. I wonder if it was considered strange then too...

It happens with Australian exchange students too. It's all Neighbours, Steve Irwin, etc, CONSTANTLY.

for my part I have always had a strange "pull" towards asian culture and it has kind of devloped after that i mean i like anime and manga, but i also like the history of japan itself i mean just the myth's and legends including the Samurai the martial arts, Onmyoji.

But I also know that one day when i decide to visit japan i'm going to Akihabara (Tokyo) Sapoporo (known for their wondeful ramen ^;^) and of course Heiankyo or known today as Kyoto (oldest capital of Japan)

But of course this is just my side of being a total Otaku :vsign:

You know Im not really sure I guess they just feel comftorable with Japanese things. I like it becuz its interesting. Not to mention I learned the English Culture first so Jap isnt my first.

I think it mostly boils down to stereotypes; when you embrace them as an all-encompassing overview you do ANY culture a great disservice.

Anime, mangas, etc. are a part of Japanese culture (or pop culture, however you choose to distinguish), but by no means represent the fingerprint of an entire nation. I'm sure that there are some Japanese folks that hate mangas or j-pop lol, every individual is different, no matter what country you're in.

I think that the "wierdos" latch on to the stereotypes and create a false reality for themseleves. A place where their "wierd" vices are embraced and even celebrated, while in their native countries or nationalities they'd be ostracized. To generalize, I'd say it's one bigass coping mechanism. Can't say I blame them, as humans we (most of us anyways) want to feel connected and accepted. Some people would go through pretty hefty lengths to feel that they belong, even if it's a big fat illusion. Not saying that I agree or would do the same, but I do understand...

There's more to Germany than beer and nazis. There's more to China than pandas and The Great Wall. And there's damn sure more to Japan than video games and cosplay. To think otherwise is a graaaaave misconception.

I think it's sad that some feel the need to adopt a totally different culture because they feel like such an outsider within their own. But, I'm an advocate of "to each his/her own", and as long as they aren't causing harm to anyone (i.e. pedophelia) I say that whatever culture or pop culture anyone gravitates to is their own business, even if I don't agree with the reasoning behind it.

Obviously this is just my surface-level opinion and everyone's personal beleifs are different. I'd never mean to pigeon-hole anyone for what they like, my apologies if it comes across that way. Also, forgive me for any typos lol. :shrugs: <3

To sum this all up...

Social rejects LOVE Japan because it's the furthest from their culture, and it's a total escape from reality-- especially because it's wrapped up in years of misunderstandings and mystique. Not only that but it has the best cartoons, snacks, gadgets and porn!

What smelly foreign creep doesn't love cartoons, snacks, gadgets, and porn?

Hah! Good point.
I'm with this guy.


In a more positive aspect: If foreign weirdos have a place in Japanese society... Then, normal foreign people should definitely have one too. Right?