did the u.s.have to drop the bomb?

[alanX]

Originally Posted by Sblegach

Well, im not saying it was good. But what can we do? It happened already, and giving links and facts about why they should or should not have well, wont change history. Not trying to be a DBag or anything just saying. It was bad, and I dont think the U.S should have gone to such extremes and thats that.

Agreed.
With everything.

It happened. There's nothing we can do now. Whether it was a good decision or bad decision is an opinion we all make for our selves, but making threads about it and continuously discussing it is pointless.

It won't re-wright history.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by GTJ

Well, we certainly weren't the ones committing genocide. Or subjugating, raping, and pillaging our way through neighboring countries.

So... yeah.

Oops, look, it got off topic. I guess we can all stop talking about it now!

America was a country that had a society built upon notions of racial hierarchy (much of the West had similar notions of racial superiority). A notion which was reflected in political relations with Japan preceding WW2. A notion which arguably, indirectly lead Japan to militarize and expand.

America was also allied with European colonial powers at the time which had subjugated, raped and pillaged their way through the region. In fact the people of Indonesia actually welcomed Japanese forces at first because the Japanese kicked the Dutch out. Of course in the end Japan became no better than the Dutch were... but you get the idea.

So you can see how the bigger picture of WW2 is more complicated than the typical "We are the good guys Japan/Germany are the bad guys" stance that Americans typically take.

[alanX]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

America was also allied with European colonial powers at the time which had subjugated, raped and pillaged their way through the region.

What's worse, raping someone, or being friends with someone who raped someone?

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by alanX

What's worse, raping someone, or being friends with someone who raped someone?

Well America weren't just friends with the Europeans. They fought for them.

[GTJ]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

America was a country that had a society built upon notions of racial hierarchy (much of the West had similar notions of racial superiority).

Irrelevent to the conversation.

America was also allied with European colonial powers at the time which had subjugated, raped and pillaged their way through the region.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize we were supposed to ally with the Nazis. Silly me.

So you can see how the bigger picture of WW2 is more complicated than the typical "We are the good guys Japan/Germany are the bad guys" stance that Americans typically take.

Speaking of stances, how about the haughty one you take when you make sweeping generalizations about the inhabitants of an entire nation? You're being top notch A-hole and throwing the thread way off at the same time. Knock it off and quit trolling.

I think this thread has reached the point MMM mentioned it would in the first few posts. We're done here.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by GTJ

Irrelevent to the conversation.



Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize we were supposed to ally with the Nazis. Silly me.



Speaking of stances, how about the haughty one you take when you make sweeping generalizations about the inhabitants of an entire nation? You're being top notch A-hole and throwing the thread way off at the same time. Knock it off and quit trolling.

I think this thread has reached the point MMM mentioned it would in the first few posts. We're done here.

-It is relevant to the point you challenged me on. Furthermore that quote was part of a larger point I was trying to make about the effects such a notion (the one of racial heirarchy and superiority) had on International politics at the time and how it could have mobilised Japan militarily.

-Why are you offended? I said typically... I didn't say all Americans took that stance.

-I'm not being a troll. All I'm trying to do is put history into perspective. It is you that took issue with my position that America weren't exactly the good guys in WW2.

[burkhartdesu]

The rest of the posts aside -- Desperate times call for desperate measures...

Nuclear weapons are evil, war is evil... What is there to argue? No point in debating the lesser of two evils.

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Yes and no..

Were there other ways to win the war? Of course. Japan was all but beaten at the time. But it was the easiest way to win the war as well as the way in which the Americans could reap the most reward as Sangetsu points out.

In saying that though... I particularly hate this discussion because it's redundant and you always get the annoying, chest thumping, American patriot who likes to pretend that America were somehow the "good guys" of WW2.

Tell me how America became involved in the war. Who declared war on who? If America were not the "good guys" in the war, then who exactly were?

Can you tell me what the "reward" was? Billions in national treasure expended, millions of lives lost? How many of your relatives died in the war and were buried in foreign lands? Some of mine did/were.

You read above the numbers of soldiers killed and wounded in the battles for Iwo Jima and Okinawa. How many British, Australian, or French soldiers were involved in those battles? Oh, that's right, there weren't any.

It's funny how soon we forget the sacrifices made in the war. Forgetting is bad enough, but it's stupefying when those sacrifices are belittled.

[seiki]

I believe it was a good decision on the part of the u.s. They saved countless years of island hopping and the loss of many more lives on both sides. They had to bring the war to an abrupt halt and their point was confirmed when russia got the atomic bomb on august 29 just 26 days after the u.s. attacked hiroshima.

I do believe that they could have picked a better place to drop it in japan but the u.s. wasn't the only country to drop a bomb on a relatively quiet town such as the bombing of dresden. The dificult choice made by the u.s. was rewarded by the 1,000,000+ lives that were not ended in island jumping.

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

-It is relevant to the point you challenged me on. Furthermore that quote was part of a larger point I was trying to make about the effects such a notion (the one of racial heirarchy and superiority) had on International politics at the time and how it could have mobilised Japan militarily.

-Why are you offended? I said typically... I didn't say all Americans took that stance.

-I'm not being a troll. All I'm trying to do is put history into perspective. It is you that took issue with my position that America weren't exactly the good guys in WW2.

If you want to talk about racial heirarchy and superiority, those were the driving forces behind the Germans and Japanese. Germans were the "master race", and the Japanese had a "divine" Emperor, and "manifest destiny" and all that. The Japanese saw themselves as superior to all other peoples. They didn't even consider the people of Southeast Asia as human beings, but mere chattel, fit only to be used as the lowest of slaves.

It was America and the Allies which fought against those notions.