JapanForum.com  


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
(#11 (permalink))
Old
randomdiscussionblog's Avatar
randomdiscussionblog (Offline)
New to JF
 
Posts: 27
Join Date: Aug 2009
08-17-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercyseverity View Post
Then why don't they address that issue properly and cite that as one of their reasons? I'm sorry I don't really see the connection. Surely their are other resources to "exploit" then whales. Why don't they develop ways of farming dolphins instead of continuing to kill them in the wild (like with the Dall's porpoise they are being killed unsustainably) Maybe I'm not understanding your argument but the matter still remains that the meat of dolphins is practically poisonous and whale meat isn't much better.
Also I'm curious what will happen if other pro-whaling nations follow Japan's scientific research idea and all have similar quotas. Then the overall number of will be unsustainable and it will be right back to commercial whaling and near extinction for the cetaceans. Japan isn't the only country with food security problems I'm sure.
Why was my post moved here? I wasn't even replying to you.
Reply With Quote
(#12 (permalink))
Old
mercyseverity's Avatar
mercyseverity (Offline)
New to JF
 
Posts: 7
Join Date: Aug 2009
08-19-2009, 05:18 PM

My question is I wonder if the Japanese consumers who regularly buy or eat dolphin/whale meat know about the mercury content? (the cause of Minamata disease) As I said before when I was there on exchange it seemed that most people thought it was healthy for you, but my experience was limited. I know people are always trying to be healthy so if they knew I wonder if there would even be a huge market for it.
If these fishermen who sell the meat are trying to hide these facts from the consumers in order to make money I think it is very wrong. This will probably be the main thing that could stop the slaughter of Whales and Dolphins if only people knew.
Since the movie "the cove" will not be shown in Japan, how will people find out about it? What can someone, like me from North America do to give the right facts to the Japanese so they can make up their own minds about the issue? I just want to be able to help and make a difference but I feel I cannot because I don't live in Japan
Reply With Quote
(#13 (permalink))
Old
minminRW's Avatar
minminRW (Offline)
JF Regular
 
Posts: 94
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chiba Japan
08-29-2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercyseverity View Post
My question is I wonder if the Japanese consumers who regularly buy or eat dolphin/whale meat know about the mercury content? (the cause of Minamata disease) As I said before when I was there on exchange it seemed that most people thought it was healthy for you, but my experience was limited. I know people are always trying to be healthy so if they knew I wonder if there would even be a huge market for it.
If these fishermen who sell the meat are trying to hide these facts from the consumers in order to make money I think it is very wrong. This will probably be the main thing that could stop the slaughter of Whales and Dolphins if only people knew.
Since the movie "the cove" will not be shown in Japan, how will people find out about it? What can someone, like me from North America do to give the right facts to the Japanese so they can make up their own minds about the issue? I just want to be able to help and make a difference but I feel I cannot because I don't live in Japan
The way of living of Japanese people must be decided by Japanese people.

Aussie are killing many Kangaloos. Are not Kangaloos wild animal?
Western People are Killing barn animals over twice amount of that of Japanese per capita . Is it OK because they are not wild? I do not think so.
Breeding animal for killing may be more ugly than hunting because animals except human do not breed other animals for their food.

It depends on variety of culture. Other people must not blame.
Reply With Quote
(#14 (permalink))
Old
Ronin4hire's Avatar
Ronin4hire (Offline)
Busier Than Shinjuku Station
 
Posts: 2,353
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: ウェリントン、ニュジランド
08-29-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by minminRW View Post
The way of living of Japanese people must be decided by Japanese people.

Aussie are killing many Kangaloos. Are not Kangaloos wild animal?
Western People are Killing barn animals over twice amount of that of Japanese per capita . Is it OK because they are not wild? I do not think so.
Breeding animal for killing may be more ugly than hunting because animals except human do not breed other animals for their food.

It depends on variety of culture. Other people must not blame.
Whales inhabit International waters.

Kangaroos only affect Australia.

And concerning so called "media racism". I think it might be the fact that the main countries that protest whaling are located in the pacific (Australia, New Zealand and the United States of America.) and that Japan is the country that is active in the pacific.. rather than any sort of conspiracy against Japan.
Reply With Quote
(#15 (permalink))
Old
minminRW's Avatar
minminRW (Offline)
JF Regular
 
Posts: 94
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chiba Japan
08-29-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin4hire View Post
Whales inhabit International waters.

Kangaroos only affect Australia.

And concerning so called "media racism". I think it might be the fact that the main countries that protest whaling are located in the pacific (Australia, New Zealand and the United States of America.) and that Japan is the country that is active in the pacific.. rather than any sort of conspiracy against Japan.
>Whales inhabit International waters.
>Kangaroos only affect Australia.

That is strange opinion. Animals do not know what country they live.
And they cannot choose their country.
Kangaloos must die because they live in Australia?
Your opinion is just as much as based on western culture.

I know, once upon a time, western people were best whaler in the world.
Because they needed lamp oil. They quit whaling because they got new easy oil from underground, not because of whale.

From eyes of Japanese people, whaling for only oil and throwing their meat is blaspheme of whale's life. Japanese have whaled with thanks them, eaten almost all parts of meat, used their bones barbels or skins, and made tomb and held masses since stone ages.

I think you cannot understand this sense of value.

Blaming hunting animals to other country must be fair in case of extinction crisis for the species. Moreover using force like Sea Shepherd must be banned.
Reply With Quote
(#16 (permalink))
Old
Ronin4hire's Avatar
Ronin4hire (Offline)
Busier Than Shinjuku Station
 
Posts: 2,353
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: ウェリントン、ニュジランド
08-29-2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by minminRW View Post
>Whales inhabit International waters.
>Kangaroos only affect Australia.

That is strange opinion. Animals do not know what country they live.
And they cannot choose their country.
Kangaloos must die because they live in Australia?
Your opinion is just as much as based on western culture.
You've missed the point.

-Australia is under the jurisdiction of the Australian government and laws.

-However, the open sea belongs to no country. Therefore the open sea and it's ecology must be protected via International consensus and challenging Japanese ships in open waters is fine to a certain extent.

-Japan goes against International consensus concerning whaling.

-Commercial whaling pushed certain species of whale close to extinction therefore if commercial whaling were to resume, they would once again become endangered.

Quote:
I know, once upon a time, western people were best whaler in the world.
Because they needed lamp oil. They quit whaling because they got new easy oil from underground, not because of whale.
I don't know where you got this idea from. Whaling was outlawed in the 20th century because they were endangered.
Reply With Quote
(#17 (permalink))
Old
Ryzorian (Offline)
Busier Than Shinjuku Station
 
Posts: 1,134
Join Date: Jun 2009
08-30-2009, 01:00 AM

Basically meaning they were running out and had to stop.

I kinda see where MinMinRW is comeing from on this though.

I'm sure Indians see Americans and thier consumption of cows pretty barbaric. Just like Americans see eating dogs and cats as barbaric. It's cultural preference much of it, allthough I do see cutting off the sharks fins and throwing the rest of the shark away as wasteful.

As to International waters, that tends to be a really blurred line. Most nations respect a 200 mile range on territorial waters, the US only sees 12. We Americans tend to be pretty near sighted.
Reply With Quote
(#18 (permalink))
Old
minminRW's Avatar
minminRW (Offline)
JF Regular
 
Posts: 94
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chiba Japan
08-30-2009, 05:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin4hire View Post
You've missed the point.

-Australia is under the jurisdiction of the Australian government and laws.

-However, the open sea belongs to no country. Therefore the open sea and it's ecology must be protected via International consensus and challenging Japanese ships in open waters is fine to a certain extent.

-Japan goes against International consensus concerning whaling.

-Commercial whaling pushed certain species of whale close to extinction therefore if commercial whaling were to resume, they would once again become endangered.


I don't know where you got this idea from. Whaling was outlawed in the 20th century because they were endangered.
You are the one who has missed the point.

>-Australia is under the jurisdiction of the Australian government and laws.
>-However, the open sea belongs to no country. Therefore the open sea and it's ecology must be protected via International consensus and challenging Japanese ships in open waters is fine to a certain extent.

Whaling is restricted by IWC. Amount of hunting dolphin is also restricted by Japanese government. So you can blame Japan and IWC. Likewise we can blame Australia.

We are discussing whether hunting wild animal is wrong or not, the matter of target we have to protest is another thing.

>-Japan goes against International consensus concerning whaling.

This is just as much as tyranny by major group.

>-Commercial whaling pushed certain species of whale close to extinction therefore if commercial whaling were to resume, they would once again become endangered.

Commercial whaling must be controlled instead of inhibited.
Many data shows that some kind of whales are increasing.

>Whaling was outlawed in the 20th century because they were endangered.
Once western people overhunted whales and had no other choice to decrease the amount. They quit whaling as petroleum products replaced whale oil. Afterward whaling was outlawed.
Reply With Quote
(#19 (permalink))
Old
Ronin4hire's Avatar
Ronin4hire (Offline)
Busier Than Shinjuku Station
 
Posts: 2,353
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: ウェリントン、ニュジランド
08-30-2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by minminRW View Post
You are the one who has missed the point.

Whaling is restricted by IWC. Amount of hunting dolphin is also restricted by Japanese government. So you can blame Japan and IWC. Likewise we can blame Australia.

We are discussing whether hunting wild animal is wrong or not, the matter of target we have to protest is another thing.
What are we blaming Australia for? I don't quite understand what you're getting at.

Hunting a wild animal is not wrong provided that the animal is hunted ethically and with regard for the ecosystem. Whale's were close to extinct before and the fear is that hunting whale could make them close to extinct again.

The IWC ruling on commercial whaling is the very international consensus I was talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by minminRW View Post
This is just as much as tyranny by major group.
Call it what you want. (I'd call it democratic) But that's just the way the world works. The only way Japan could persuade the rest of the international community to reconsider is via a reasoned appeal to convince other IWC members to overturn the ban. Even in Japan, the whaling ban is only controversial to Japanese nationalists and conservatives. This issue is not about the world telling Japan what to do. It's about the world taking a vote and the majority of the international community outlawed whaling on the open seas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by minminRW View Post
Commercial whaling must be controlled instead of inhibited.
Many data shows that some kind of whales are increasing.
No because allowing Japan to hunt whale would mean allowing other countries to whale. Furthermore, whatever controls Japan or other countries put in place are not guaruntees that they will be observed. After all, when money is involved, corporations look to cut corners and look for loopholes (just like the how they exploit the loophole in the IWC ruling that allows for "scientific whaling"). That is not a risk that the international community is willing to take.

Quote:
Originally Posted by minminRW View Post
Once western people overhunted whales and had no other choice to decrease the amount. They quit whaling as petroleum products replaced whale oil. Afterward whaling was outlawed.
Whatever the reasons. It's irrelevant. The point is that in the West something was done.
Reply With Quote
(#20 (permalink))
Old
Ronin4hire's Avatar
Ronin4hire (Offline)
Busier Than Shinjuku Station
 
Posts: 2,353
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: ウェリントン、ニュジランド
08-30-2009, 07:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryzorian View Post

As to International waters, that tends to be a really blurred line. Most nations respect a 200 mile range on territorial waters, the US only sees 12. We Americans tend to be pretty near sighted.
I think you're confusing territorial waters with economic exclusive zone.

Under the international law of the sea, a coastal country can claim 12 miles of water from it's coast as territorial waters, and 200 miles off it's coast as the economic exclusive zone.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright 2003-2006 Virtual Japan.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC6