Japan's record in history and Japanophilia

[Barone1551]

Originally Posted by komitsuki

And a lot of the PMs visit Yasukuni Shrine or say some controversial stuffs right after they apologize. Do I see hypocrisy (esp. for the LDP politicians)?

Rinse and repeat for 30 years.

If Japan officially apologized, Japanese politicians should stop paying "positive" homage to the Yasukuni Shrine for the WWII military leaders 20 years ago.

But there has been many formal apologies, I understand the whole idea that paying homage to the Yasukuni shrine is not a smart move. But there has been many apologies. You say they haven't apologized ever, which is wrong. And since you seem to know so much about this, the new PM has already said he would not go to the shrine.

[Koir]

Originally Posted by 731

BTW, this isn't a troll post or anything like that.

Yes, it is. And yes, you are. Go crawl back under the bridge you came from.

[komitsuki]

Originally Posted by samurai007

The country of Japan, and the Japanese people, are not the same today as they were in the Imperial days. Most were not even alive back then, or if they were, they were children at the time.

Nobody is saying ALL Japanese people are responsible for this. As a matter of fact, I kept emphasizing the activists' and politicians' role regarding this matter.

[komitsuki]

Originally Posted by Barone1551

But there has been many formal apologies

If there were formal apologies, why keep paying positive homage to that Shrine (or any other WWII-related places and monuments) for those specific figures? Isn't it because they weren't formal apologies in the first place?

You say they haven't apologized ever, which is wrong.

Read carefully what I wrote. There hasn't been any apology as in sincere apology. I didn't say "no apologies was ever done".

the new PM has already said he would not go to the shrine.

But we will never know what this crazy party called LDP will do in the near future.

[tksensei]

You are obviously prejudiced and ill-informed.

[Ryzorian]

Komitsuki; They aren't going to stop paying homage to shrines with wardead, saying their apologies don't matter becuase of this is silly. I'm sorry but I'm calling you on this one. Obama payed respects at Arlington and guess what? Southern dead from the Civil War are intered there. National leaders are expected to perform these functions at thier national cemeteries.

I mean really, shouldn't the Korean leaders meet at thier shrines to honor their war dead? even if some of those fallen were probably war criminals as well? Believe me all war shrines will have certain individuals buried there that were prolly war criminals. Still, most died serving thier respective countries as honorably as they could, self sacrifice, that's what's being honored when they visit these sites.

[IcewindDude]

Whether or not they have officially apologized or not, I don't want to relate Japan's old past with the people there today. Do not blame the entire people for something they cannot help. Most of the newer generations do not even share that same mindset. Some of the old farts in both Japan and America harbor some bad feelings, but that is disappearing along with that generation. The war is OVER and while the mistakes should not be forgotten, I have to say get over it already.

Similarly, I don't want to be blamed for all the stupid things (imo) that the American government has been up to recently. As a citizen of the US, I really feel I have no say so. They hardly represent ME. Just like many people of this world, we just live here and have to deal with the environment we're put into, whether it's the US, Japan, or anywhere else.

An unsettling fact is that we don't know what all happened back then. "Facts" sometimes trickle out, but we can never be sure of the mysterious government... What we can be sure of is that Japan and America came to an agreement despite what all the higher ups knew. Who can you really blame for that, the doer or the accepter?

[Klint]

Originally Posted by Koir

Yes, it is. And yes, you are. Go crawl back under the bridge you came from.

Especially if he's not going to bother replying. :-/

[NanteNa]

So you changed your mind after your great uncle (who fought the Japanese) told you they were horrible people? Wow, that sounds like a great way to achieve an opinion on things. Of COURSE he learned to hate them - cause he had to.

All countries have their horrible stories. Back in 1800 the Danish farmers were treated horribly by the upper class who put them in stabled, fed them porridge and forced them to work from sunrise til sunset every single day. They'd get beaten, raped and humiliated in any way possible. Now how does that have anything to do with the current population?

So you want everyone ever participating in war punished? Should we take in all American soldiers who fought for their own country and put them to prison because they violated human rights by defending what they believe in?

Claiming that you're betraying your own culture because u were curious about a so much more different country than your own is just stupid. Following interest and curiosity is not ''betrayal'' - it's learning, and if you cannot see that.. I'm amazed you go to university.

[komitsuki]

Originally Posted by NanteNa

So you changed your mind after your great uncle (who fought the Japanese) told you they were horrible people? Wow, that sounds like a great way to achieve an opinion on things. Of COURSE he learned to hate them - cause he had to.

All countries have their horrible stories. Back in 1800 the Danish farmers were treated horribly by the upper class who put them in stabled, fed them porridge and forced them to work from sunrise til sunset every single day. They'd get beaten, raped and humiliated in any way possible. Now how does that have anything to do with the current population?

So you want everyone ever participating in war punished? Should we take in all American soldiers who fought for their own country and put them to prison because they violated human rights by defending what they believe in?

Claiming that you're betraying your own culture because u were curious about a so much more different country than your own is just stupid. Following interest and curiosity is not ''betrayal'' - it's learning, and if you cannot see that.. I'm amazed you go to university.

That's not really the point. The real point is that some (not all) prominent Japanese politicians and activists who over-glorify WWII and the atrocities today. They keep saying things like "the Nanking Massacre didn't exist" or "Korea should ditch its own culture for Japanese" and they should stop doing these kind of activities. They are the ones who keep glorifying this.

If they stopped, Korea and China never have any issues about this in the first place.