English in Japan

[Aniki]

Originally Posted by spoonybard

It's their choice, really, but they are not the only ones that do this; Nightwish and Children of Bodom are Finnish bands, yet their lyrics are in English, and so are those of Arch Enemy who's members are Swedish, except for the vocalist, who is German.

There's a difference between singing in English and singing in Japanese and english words into lyrics.

I personally, think it's a stupid thing to do, and that's the main reason why I'm not interested in Japanese music.

[Ryzorian]

Well, they may consider "English" the lanquage structure for pop music/rock music, same as certain lanquages are perfered for Opera.

[trunker]

i do find it interesting though that a culture which puts so much emphasis on the subtleties of its own language, for the sake of politeness etc, seem to skip really understanding the loan words they use.

for example, instead of "getting even" as in beating a team this week that beat you last week, they frequently use "revenge" which is a bit harsh. or using the term "unacceptable" without realizing that it is quite an abrupt way of telling someone "no".

but i suppose english does the same with its loan words.

about the lyrics in english thing,.... tinymixtapes.com did an article on a big rapper in japan called Zeebra, who frequently throws in english phrases into his music,.... when asked why he did that, he said it had to do with having a common element lyrically so that someone who doesnt speak japanese will still get some of the lyrics and catch the vibe of the track. he gave the example of getting demo tapes from korean rappers where he doesnt understand a thing.

personally i dont listen to Zeebra, and I think its a cop out to excuse straight out imitation, but perhaps he does have a point, as Ryzorian said its just the de facto language of popular music.

[MMM]

Historically Japan has always been a nation of adapters. Although there is much pride in Japan's language and culture, and one foot is always firmly planted in that part of Japan, at the same time in the last couple centuries Japan has learned that the world has a lot to offer. From bread to cars to VCRs and far beyond, Japan is the country where a good idea gets better.

Unlike in France, where linguistic purity is fought for, Japanese don't see loan words as non-Japanese as much as new ways to say new things. Naturally the words adopted become "Japanese" and therefore don't always have the same meaning as their English (or other language) roots. There is no correcting, them, as they aren't wrong. Revenge might mean one thing in English, but リベンジ might be something else in Japanese.

[trunker]

yeah i know, and its one of the frustrating things about teaching english, or i suppose any other language....

half the time i find myself saying " well its not "wrong", but,....."

[TalnSG]

Originally Posted by MMM

Japanese don't see loan words as non-Japanese as much as new ways to say new things. Naturally the words adopted become "Japanese" and therefore don't always have the same meaning as their English (or other language) roots. There is no correcting, them, as they aren't wrong. Revenge might mean one thing in English, but リベンジ might be something else in Japanese.

That makes some sense when you consider that the subtle differences (connotative meanings) are often direct results of the culture using the words. "Revenge" is a good example of this. When one regards a competition as a friendly exercise and of nto much significance, "revenge" is far too strong a term for winning against an opponent who won last time. But when the competition is one of great pride, to get revenge on an opponent who defeated you in the past is entirely accurate. Notice the correlated difference between '"won" and "defeated" as well.

When foreign terms are brought into use and you are not certain of the connotation they carry in the new syntax, I find it is best to turn to objective definitions first before common usage.