Marriage and aging: A generalization.

[IamKira]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I feel that I`m very far from a feminist

technically, a feminist is a person who cares about womans rights, so I am a feminist myself, and I'd hope you'd be as well.
what i think you are saying is "I do not consider myself one of those losers who seek out every possible instance of male superiority and have it reversed (e.g. motioning for "woman" to be changed to "womon" and for "women" to become "womyn") " am i correct in assuming you just want to make it clear that you are not petty like that? that still doesn't mean you are not a feminist.

anyway back to the main topic... marriage was born as a strategy in life to make neg. utility from a break up higher than positive utility.
now, however, marriage is almost purely a womans gain strategy. Women of the world, if you want to make some major bucks, marry a guy, have a kid with him and seek divorce.
as long as there is a kid involved, the woman has a solid 60's - 80's percentile probability of getting custody.. the courts just naturally want to see the mother with the kid... when that happens, 70% of assets go to the mother so she can raise the standard of living for the kid.

anyway, marriage has become a profitable industry for people (mostly women).. hopefully a few gay marriage dissolutions will help move us away from this "mother + kid allways" philosophy

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by IamKira

technically, a feminist is a person who cares about womans rights, so I am a feminist myself, and I'd hope you'd be as well.

A feminist is one who cares about rights for women... This doesn`t extend to the general rights of people, so in too many cases it takes on the meaning of "women`s rights above all others".
I am an egalitarian. I believe in equal rights for both men and women - not just in rights for women.

anyway back to the main topic... marriage was born as a strategy in life to make neg. utility from a break up higher than positive utility.
now, however, marriage is almost purely a womans gain strategy. Women of the world, if you want to make some major bucks, marry a guy, have a kid with him and seek divorce.

This is where what you think of the marriage as comes into play. If you think of it as a temporary arrangement, or one with few consequences for not fulfilling it... That is exactly what it will be.
A marriage isn`t necessary for a happy and productive relationship - it`s just a tool to make things easier, really. This is why I don`t really think that it is something that should be abolished.

as long as there is a kid involved, the woman has a solid 60's - 80's percentile probability of getting custody.. the courts just naturally want to see the mother with the kid... when that happens, 70% of assets go to the mother so she can raise the standard of living for the kid.

This really doesn`t have much at all to do with marriage these days - at least not in the US. A woman can have a one night stand, get pregnant, and then demand a chunk of the man`s income for the child. Live together for a few years and prove you invested anything into the purchase of a house / car / etc - and there is a fair chance of receiving it when a child is involved. Marriage itself isn`t at fault here - it`s the whole attitude toward marriage and the selfishness in these relationships. It`s really just a tool that can be misused.
If marriage as an institution were removed, I don`t see anything really changing. There would be just as many people out there being selfish and screwing each other over in some way. The only difference would be whether they were registered with the government.

[MMM]

This is an interesting topic, though the idea of abolishing marriage is a little silly.

If you are worried about getting divorced there are two things you can do to radically increase the chance of your marriage lasting your lifetime, at least in the US.

1) graduate from college

2) wait until at least the age of 25 to get married.

Statistically those are the two factors that hinge between a majority of life long marriages and a majority of divorces in the US.

I point it out in every thread that does it, but I am not sure what being an American woman has to do with the divorce rate being as high as it is. Marriage is certainly a two-way street, so just because more women initiate divorce than men is no indicator of how awful marrying an American woman is. It may be an indicator of how awful marrying an American man is...who knows?

I am going to go out on a limb and say I am guessing that the rate of initiating divorce in Japan is probably as high if not higher from women as it is from men.

[TalnSG]

The OP is an extremely cynical view of the institution, but not entirely wrong. Marriage and divorce can be and often is used as a weapon. But if you agree to such a contractual bonding without first truly knowing both yourself and the other person, that is the risk. Lust and "being in love" just won't cut it in the real world.

The courts no longer automatically side with the wife in divorces for either custody or assets. And they are not to blame for the fact that a person does not use good judgement in a relationship. Thinking a person will change after marriage is also a common and severe mistake made by both men and women. We don't change. We just reveal more and more of our true character you failed to notice or convinced yourself was a minor problem.

Marriage is a commitment and as such is basically beneficial to both parties when done sensibily and for the right reasons.

HOWEVER, the legal and financial issues can irrepairably damage the bond and the individuals. I absolutely dissapprove of the tax and other legal benefits accorded to people solely because of a marriage certificate. It is neither just nor equitable..... EVER! I support gay marriage only because it is the single practical way to help equalize people under the law. I would prefer that the government stay completely out of the marriage contract entirely, but that is not going to happen.

The one piece of advice I would add to MMM's is to travel together and then live together for a while as roommates before marriage. I know this goes against the mores of most societies, but there is a logical reason for this.

Even if you find find your "soulmate" (yes, I believe in the concept) it does not automatically mean you belong together as husband and wife. Traveling with them will reveal how your work together under stress, or don't. Living with someone you are forced to face the reality of all sides of their personality and you will have a better foundation for deciding whether to take it further.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by MMM

If you are worried about getting divorced there are two things you can do to radically increase the chance of your marriage lasting your lifetime, at least in the US.

1) graduate from college

2) wait until at least the age of 25 to get married.

Statistically those are the two factors that hinge between a majority of life long marriages and a majority of divorces in the US.

I've heard age before, but I've never heard college degree before.
I mean are we talking an associate degree, Bachelors, Masters or PHD.

Does your marriage last longer the better degree you have?
Are we talking the man or the women with a college degree or both?
What about minors?
Don't necessarily doubt it, but just never heard it; at least not in a recent study

I think #3 should be: Have a steady job or the ability to get steady work.

I'll add #4. Love is important for a marriage to last life long
Oh... how sweet.

[bELyVIS]

The reason I believe that American women have changed is they overdo it with the equal rights thing. I feel that they think they need to be in charge to be equal. This is what I sensed while dating some and was married to a American woman. I think this is why marriage is doomed in America. I am now married to a Japanese woman and she, and all Asian women I dated before, just treat me differently and I like it. I do treat them as equal even if it is not what they are taught in their culture and they loved being treated this way.
There is nothing wrong in being equal, just do order me around.
(I await your rants Mercedesjin )

[manganimefan227]

I guess one way to help your marriage is to think of eachother as equals, so you don't feel so far from eachother and that shorter journey over the bridge that links you will encourage others to want to cross it!!

[xyzone]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

You know, I actually agreed with a lot of your points until you said this.

If there is anywhere that marriage is almost a completely financial arrangement, it`s Japan. Men get married to have children and someone to raise them and care for the house - and women get married for the monetary stability. It`s quite transparent, and love / mutual support is really a bonus on top if you`ve got it.

I don't think you understood what I meant. What you describe is exactly the setup I'm saying is superior to entitled women who don't work yet do nothing in a marriage, often not even take care of kids because of daycare services. Raising children and taking care of the house seems like a huge accomplishment of Japanese women over American ones. That was part of my point.

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

The reason I believe that American women have changed is they overdo it with the equal rights thing. I feel that they think they need to be in charge to be equal. This is what I sensed while dating some and was married to a American woman. I think this is why marriage is doomed in America. I am now married to a Japanese woman and she, and all Asian women I dated before, just treat me differently and I like it. I do treat them as equal even if it is not what they are taught in their culture and they loved being treated this way.
There is nothing wrong in being equal, just do order me around.
(I await your rants Mercedesjin )

Straight from the horse's mouth. And believe me, this isn't the first time I've heard this.

The reason American(ized) women act that way is because they have a sense of entitlement that's bestowed upon them the moment they sprout boobs. They're treated differently and given a lot of mercy within an aggressive society. It doesn't matter how many reactionary noobs pop up to say "not me not me not me", we're talking about a general trend here, not your life.

Btw, the comments that have insinuated this is about me, you are wrong. I haven't taken crap from women since college, and even then it was superficial. I just find it sick how all these cat whipped idiots make fools of themselves and believe that it's just normal, or that marriage is normal or necessary. The ones that choose not to listen deserve their fate.

Originally Posted by IamKira

technically, a feminist is a person who cares about womans rights, so I am a feminist myself, and I'd hope you'd be as well.

You know, I used to think like you. If you don't drop that mentality you're going to get played someday. I can guarantee it. "women" don't care about what you think or do about their "rights"; obviously that means as some organized group (which does not exist). We mention the fact that women have more rights than ever, are favored in many areas, have special rights and even have a higher rate of university graduation, all that women's rights stuff just makes somebody look like a person who needs better priorities. Believe me, being a "nice guy" will never get you laid, either. Women are not impressed by your faux niceness or obsequiousness and never will be. Women are attracted to aloof a-holes that treat them indifferently. I know, I know, you might be replying to this with "no, not true blah blah blah", you're fooling nobody. I know how you think. I was there.

Originally Posted by TalnSG

Marriage is a commitment and as such is basically beneficial to both parties when done sensibily and for the right reasons.

Far more sensible than marriage, though, is getting married by each other's word only, not the state. Then it means something.

[IamKira]

Originally Posted by xyzone

Women are attracted to aloof a-holes that treat them indifferently.

very true. i can't tell you how many times i have been shunned by girls when executing a strategy of "nice guy" characteristics only to find them with jackasses later on
to be honest it's driven me to rape thought - i would never ever do that, but whenever i see a girl i would like to court, she is always with a guy.. i can seem to find them not in a relationship - and i end up imagining what it would be like.. but again, i can't see being able to bring myself to do such an act.

[xyzone]

Originally Posted by IamKira

very true. i can't tell you how many times i have been shunned by girls when executing a strategy of "nice guy" characteristics only to find them with jackasses later on
to be honest it's driven me to rape thought - i would never ever do that, but whenever i see a girl i would like to court, she is always with a guy.. i can seem to find them not in a relationship - and i end up imagining what it would be like.. but again, i can't see being able to bring myself to do such an act.

Well then I'm giving you the advice I wish I would have gotten 10 years ago. Don't act nice. Of course show interest but no nice, not a speck of it. In fact try to keep the acting to a minimum unless you're a professional actor. That's about the only valid thing in the whole "be yourself" cliché. Yes, be yourself because most people are naturally jerks and this is what girls find attractive regardless of whatever girly babble they spout.