"Religion and the secular in Japan"

[Ronin4hire]

ejcjs - Religion and the Secular in Japan: Problems in history, social anthropology and the study of religion

Interesting essay I was given to by a friend of mine who is a sociology major who is also on exchange here in Japan from Germany at the same university as I.

Its a long essay and is not particularly easy to read unless you study any of the social sciences and are familiar with at least a few of the terms.

To save you the time of reading the whole thing. Amongst the many things it argues, it argues that the "religious versus the secular" dichotomy that is used in the west cannot be applied to Japan.

An example Im given in one of my religious studies classes here in Japan is the idea that the word religion is not translated into Japanese correctly and therefore Japanese have a hard time understanding the concept. The closest translation is 宗教　shuukyou which if you seperate the word into the 2 kanji translates into group/sect (宗) teaching (教).

This translation puts what we understand to be "religion" in Japan today, alongside each other UNDER what may have been the authority and sanctity of the Emporers divinity in the past, to what is today something akin to what we understand "secularism" to be.

In contrast with what we understand religion to be in the West.. it is something that is COMPETING with Secularism.

In summary, basically its saying that the much debated question "Is Japan a religious country" is a flawed one because "religion" as we understand it is ONLY a Western concept and doesnt exist in Japan let alone many cultures around the world.

PS- Mods I feel that the main topic here is culture rather than religion so please leave it up.

[MMM]

First of all, I would say you are not breaking the rules with this post. However, if the discussion gets too far into one religion vs. another or why one is better, then editing may happen.

Also, from my understanding 宗教 means "religion". When you start breaking kanji pairs apart you are asking for trouble. Even if the individual characters mean something different, 宗教 means religion in pretty much the same context as it does in the West. 東京 means "East Capital" (Tokyo) but when people talk about Tokyo in Japan they are not reminded of the fact that it is the capital in the East.

I don't think Japanese people have a hard time understanding what "religion" means. I think what you are seeing is that in Japan, religion is not the underlying reason for most decision making. There is no battle between religion and secularism because religion doesn't play a competing role against secularism in Japan.

I would say on the contrary many of the traditions followed in Japan are very much based on religious traditions. However, that does not make the average Japanese "religious" as much as "traditional".

Many Japanese visit their local shrines at New Year's as a once-yearly tradition. They donate money and purchase charms...by Western standards this is hardly following a faith...you should go weekly to be involved...but that daily, weekly, monthly, or yearly dedication is arbitrary.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MMM

Also, from my understanding 宗教 means "religion". When you start breaking kanji pairs apart you are asking for trouble. Even if the individual characters mean something different, 宗教 means religion in pretty much the same context as it does in the West. 東京 means "East Capital" (Tokyo) but when people talk about Tokyo in Japan they are not reminded of the fact that it is the capital in the East.

I see your point but this is what has been told to me by my (Japanese) religious studies teacher and I think it is valid at least in order to make his case. Its not the only example he gives but to present another example would be to talk about the histories and characteristics of Christianity and "Western" religions which I fear would start trouble and get this thread shut down (if you know what I mean).

Originally Posted by MMM

I don't think Japanese people have a hard time understanding what "religion" means. I think what you are seeing is that in Japan, religion is not the underlying reason for most decision making. There is no battle between religion and secularism because religion doesn't play a competing role against secularism in Japan.

Well I would say that they dont know what religion means and the reason for that is that WE dont know what it means. My professor defines religion academically by saying it is "philosophy + ritual". What we've done in the West is create a whole new paradigm called "religion" which exists APART from Philosophy AND ritual. The Japanese simply haven't made this seperation and that is why religion doesnt translate into "Shuukyou". An example.. generally in the West we dont compare the teachings of Christianity with the teachings of the political ideologies Liberalism or Communism (not without Christians complaining about how it is not the same at least). Theoretically a Japanese person generally speaking can without second thought.

Originally Posted by MMM

I would say on the contrary many of the traditions followed in Japan are very much based on religious traditions. However, that does not make the average Japanese "religious" as much as "traditional".

Many Japanese visit their local shrines at New Year's as a once-yearly tradition. They donate money and purchase charms...by Western standards this is hardly following a faith...you should go weekly to be involved...but that daily, weekly, monthly, or yearly dedication is arbitrary.

...and this is the ritual aspect of religion.

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by MMM

First of all, I would say you are not breaking the rules with this post. However, if the discussion gets too far into one religion vs. another or why one is better, then editing may happen.

Also, from my understanding 宗教 means "religion". When you start breaking kanji pairs apart you are asking for trouble. Even if the individual characters mean something different, 宗教 means religion in pretty much the same context as it does in the West. 東京 means "East Capital" (Tokyo) but when people talk about Tokyo in Japan they are not reminded of the fact that it is the capital in the East.

I don't think Japanese people have a hard time understanding what "religion" means. I think what you are seeing is that in Japan, religion is not the underlying reason for most decision making. There is no battle between religion and secularism because religion doesn't play a competing role against secularism in Japan.

I would say on the contrary many of the traditions followed in Japan are very much based on religious traditions. However, that does not make the average Japanese "religious" as much as "traditional".

Many Japanese visit their local shrines at New Year's as a once-yearly tradition. They donate money and purchase charms...by Western standards this is hardly following a faith...you should go weekly to be involved...but that daily, weekly, monthly, or yearly dedication is arbitrary.

Great post,

[Tsuwabuki]

I find issue with the claim that any given religion is philosophy plus ritual. Your professor (if he or she is not a professor of Philosophy) is clearly misusing the term.

And I'm a published Philosopher of Religion! This is one area where I really, really know what I'm talking about. (Co-editor of a university Philosophy of Religion journal, plan to get a masters in Philosophy, but it's on the back burner).

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Well I would say that they dont know what religion means and the reason for that is that WE dont know what it means. My professor defines religion academically by saying it is "philosophy + ritual". What we've done in the West is create a whole new paradigm called "religion" which exists APART from Philosophy AND ritual. The Japanese simply haven't made this seperation and that is why religion doesnt translate into "Shuukyou". An example.. generally in the West we dont compare the teachings of Christianity with the teachings of the political ideologies Liberalism or Communism (not without Christians complaining about how it is not the same at least). Theoretically a Japanese person generally speaking can without second thought.



...and this is the ritual aspect of religion.

I think you are getting more philosophical than I am prepared to.

I will say please consider the notion that instead "shyuukyou" not fitting into the definition of religion, it is possible that "religion" doesn't fit into the Japanese notion of shyuukyou.

I am not quite understanding your idea that a Japanese person can compare religious beliefs with political beliefs in a way that we wouldn't do in the West.

But bringing that idea of traditional being religious...just because a tradition is based in a religious practice doesn't make the practitioner necessarily "religious". I think what someone considers themselves and who they look to for guidance more accurately defines whether one is religious or not.

[Liloni]

Religion comes from the latin 'Religare', meaning link together.
Two scientific located at two extremities of the planet but working with the same discipline and regularity can be considered religious people.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

I find issue with the claim that any given religion is philosophy plus ritual. Your professor (if he or she is not a professor of Philosophy) is clearly misusing the term.

And I'm a published Philosopher of Religion! This is one area where I really, really know what I'm talking about. (Co-editor of a university Philosophy of Religion journal, plan to get a masters in Philosophy, but it's on the back burner).

Well its my professors working definition (as far as Im aware, the word religion has no agreed upon definition). I can ask him any concerns you have with it as I have class with him every week so please tell me.

I dont see a problem with it though. After all Lao Tse, Buddha and Confuscious are all considered philosophers whos teachings spawned "religions". I regard Christ and Muhammed to be philosophers also in the same regard.

And it is the realm of philosophy where the nature of humans, right and wrong and the meaning(s) of life, and interpretations of nature life and death are discussed is it not? Perhaps you can give a more narrow definition of philosophy which I would be interested to hear as the above is my understanding of it.

EDIT- MMM I have to run but I will address your post later

[Ryzorian]

Personally I think too many folks confuse Religion with Faith. They are not exactly the same thing.

"Religion" could almost be discribed as a sect or group who all ascribe to a certain set of princeables. Some knightly orders in europe were "Religions" to a point.

Religion could be a way of explaining or describeing how serious a person is in a particular faith...although it could be used in any format really. That person religiously cleans thier house, for instance.

[Jaydelart]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

Personally I think too many folks confuse Religion with Faith. They are not exactly the same thing.

"Religion" could almost be discribed as a sect or group who all ascribe to a certain set of princeables. Some knightly orders in europe were "Religions" to a point.

Religion could be a way of explaining or describeing how serious a person is in a particular faith...although it could be used in any format really. That person religiously cleans thier house, for instance.

I could agree with that point.