Why do so many non-Japanese speakers think they can get a coveted job in Japan?

[GoNative]

History lesson? Revisionist anti-US propaganda is about the best way I could describe what you consider history.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by GoNative

One of the differences is that Japan doesn't really have an immigration policy. There have been some exceptions in relation to Koreans and repatriating Japanese decendents who some generations ago moved to South America. Other than that Japan doesn't have a structured immigration intake each year like many countries do. They also accept very few refugees.

Other than getting married to a Japanese citizen it's pretty hard (and takes a very long time) to get permanent residency here. After 5 years of living here you can apply for citizenship but this will normally mean giving up citizenship of your home country, Japan doesn't allow dual citizenship.
Unlike many of the countries we come from Japan is definitely not plunging headlong into multiculturalism.

I agree Japan should have a more concise immigration policy but that's about it.

But if we are going to be completely honest.. the experiment of multiculturalism is not a complete success. Some would even say it has failed I think it has in places where it was implemented the most vigourously like Holland for example which is now experiencing a spike in support for the extreme right.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by GoNative

History lesson? Revisionist anti-US propaganda is about the best way I could describe what you consider history.

Ah yes... that's right.

First you asked me for a source that was reputable. When I gave you one you dismissed it as that.

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Ah yes... that's right.

First you asked me for a source that was reputable. When I gave you one you dismissed it as that.

Pilger? He's Australian you know and I'm quite familiar with his work. His opinion piece was not any astounding work of investigative journalism. He presented it in such a way that supports his very anti US stance. He is considered very left wing and has been anti US ever since his days in the Vietnam.

Anyway thankfully Japan today is nothing like the madhouse it was leading up to and during the war. A war in which Japan killed millions and millions of people. What happened then has nothing whatsoever to do with whether people would want to live or work in Japan today.

[Ronin4hire]

It's funny how his column did everything right including the citing of official US documents and the sources of his information but no.. he's dismissed as an anti US nutjob because he doesn't agree your Star wars account of WW2. (never mind that he's one of the world's most reputable investigative journalists)

Also it was done under The Guardian letterhead. You know.. a reputable newspaper. But whatever. You'd rather caricaturize those that present a different story rather than confront anything they say head on I see

[GoNative]

But it was only an opinion piece. You know that. He cited documents but hasn't shown them. It doesn't appear these documents are inaccessible to the public and frankly I would assume if there was absolute damning evidence of the US then better jouranlists than Pilger would have picked up on it far earlier. He only strung together a nice little story to support his views but it has no real substance in my opinion. Happy to be convinced otherwise, hell I'm no lover of the great US of A but that little opinion piece by Pilger didn't convince me in the slightest.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by GoNative

But it was only an opinion piece. You know that. He cited documents but hasn't shown them. It doesn't appear these documents are inaccessible to the public and frankly I would assume if there was absolute damning evidence of the US then better jouranlists than Pilger would have picked up on it far earlier. He only strung together a nice little story to support his views but it has no real substance in my opinion. Happy to be convinced otherwise, hell I'm no lover of the great US of A but that little opinion piece by Pilger didn't convince me in the slightest.

But other journalists have touched the subject. I don't know that there are many journalists better than him but there was a piece in the Huffington Post which is an AMERICAN online newspaper about it last year for example. Also the reason why it's an opinion piece is because none of this is new and is supposed to shed light on an erroneous viewpoint which is shared by the mainstream.

Not to mention that others from Albert Einstein to Noam Chomsky to even the top generals at the time questioned the need for the bomb.

Anyway.. if you're interested in taking this head on then by all means I'll be willing to do so in the other thread.

[termogard]

Originally Posted by GoNative

I support the A-bombing of Japan to end the war and have a job, bought a house, own a bar and had my first child here in Japan. Don't see how having a job and living here has anything to do with our opinions on what happened during the war.

You should try to tell something like that to your fellow japanese.

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by termogard

You should try to tell something like that to your fellow japanese.

More than happy to if the subject ever arose. The Japanese never talk about the war though

[File0]

Originally Posted by princessmarisa

Urm, how did my thread become about illegal immigrants to other countries?

This would be my bad, sorry. I came up with a bad example. It might sound like illegal immigrants but it was about a summer work in England for two university students who wanted to visit as many museums and places as they could with not much money in their pockets - so they didn't even bring a cent home in the end, only their memories...If we used a word like Britanophile, I'd say they could have been described by that - for that time I mean - people who I know don't want to live in England because you sometimes have a real bad attitude towards foreigners, it's hard to love your hospitality.

But we admire your literature, your painters, your film-industry, your humor, your sports and so on. . . and some does it in an unnatural/crazy level = Britanophile.
And it happens to other countries too. People want to live in other countries like crazy sometimes - kids think if they play soccer good enough they can play into themselves to the Arsenal or I don't know where, or if they sing good enough they can kiss their dream-lord(pop-star) one day.

Why are these examples different than the ones with Japan? Maybe because they look so different, they cannot fit into so easily, and it seems weird somehow, and apparently the settling can be harder too, but still, if they want to dream why can't they? Being rude towards them doesn't mean that you're helping them, it means they will go elsewhere to ask their questions. If you really didn't want to give false hope you'd use different language (I mean: much more acceptable tone).

Originally Posted by princessmarisa

Anyway, to clarify I never thought the issue was limited to Japan.

You've said you'd not heard anyone saying such tings about other countries... what was that about then? And I'm not sure anymore what the issue is.

Originally Posted by princessmarisa

This may come off as a tad passive aggressive, but it is more a genuine desire to understand others.

I see so many threads of people who genuinely think they have a chance of being anything but an ALT/similar without being fluent in Japanese, or having any experience of working and living in Japanese society and how it works.

I think shooting people like this down and asking them to reassess is a dash of much needed tough love, but hey maybe I am just jaded or something?

I don't hear people say this about other countries, even though in many other places, especially across Europe being fluent in English would perhaps be enough, provided you were the top of your game in that field already.

Originally Posted by princessmarisa

I am not sure what the illegal immigrant situation is in Japan, especially of westerners which if we are honest is where the majority of the people I am talking about here post from.

Are you saying that being a westerner means: you are a native English speaker (you speak similar languages maybe?); or that if you're a westerner you will learn Japanese language by using your English knowledge? What's your point with this?

Originally Posted by princessmarisa

However comparing it to the U.K I don't think that many would go as far as to live rough to try sneak into Japan, or anything related to what we see at calais. Far more will be the visa overstayers who go with every intention of coming back then meet someone, or get caught up in a course/illegal job and decide to stay for that. I don't think very many "I must, must, must get to Japan and work as xyz" people sit planning how to sneak into Japan.
This would be far too difficult and force them to face reality that Japan is not a magical wonderland where all your dreams and everything you can't do at home will come true if you just get there and it is definately possible to get your dream job

I guess, without sounding too arrogant, it is my understanding that many people who would "do anything" to get to Britain are because they see our welfare system as one that will look after them well, or it as a place to get more money for the same work, and other such reasons. They see England as the dream-land for these reasons, and that is understandable in many ways.

I know there must be some, but I don't get the feeling that there are groups of Britian-o-philes who want to come here to be the next JLS, make episodes of teletubbies, star on the Jeremy Kyle show, look at a pic of cheryl cole in the newspaper and whatever else is seen as British.

Of course there are Japanese and other nationality teens who love these things, my pen pal is obsessed with McFly and Lily Allen but she would never just decide the best thing to do is pack up and move here as it will be fabulous amazing to be in the same country as them, let alone think she could be the next big pop star.

Yet there seem to be many Japanophiles who want to go because of J-Rock, manga/anime and idols. They think if they just get to that place they can break into that industry, or even that eing in the same place as that will be fantastic.
Some even think this about more traditional things such as shrines and being surrounded by the "mysterious symbols that means things like hope, peace and tiger" to me this is no better or worse, it is still a strange mixing of things you like/find aesthetically pleasing and appreciate with reasonable life goals.

You are mentioning a bit different factors here. Wasn't it about the language and drawings originally? I don't know why are you so tense about this? Crazy people exist everywhere...it's good for you if you don't know many.

Originally Posted by princessmarisa

Other than certain otaku/nerd interests being ever-so-slightly more accepted or at least less harshly attacked in terms of bullying, for most who post here I cannot see why they are so desperate for Japan-or-bust.

I'm not sure how you meant this, could you clarify it a bit more?

Originally Posted by princessmarisa

I guess this is just the place they come for others to tell them that it is a wonderful place and an amazing dream and if they work hard enough they will be a uber successful manga-artist or otherwise live happy ever after in the magical land of the rising sun and it will be so much nicer than anywhere else.

I don't believe in giving people false hope.

So you weren't interested in any optional answer after all.
I shouldn't have replied before . . . One cannot see your real words behind your written ones, I mean you even contradicted your own words(which I pointed out before), you must be really angry at these fun-boys...


Sorry for the late reply. I couldn't decide what to do with the thoughts about immigrants in Britain or other 'dreamlands', I think it's best not to bother with them any further in here. They are pretty harsh/hurtful though, I feel you look down on others a bit . After all this is the 21th century, I won't get mad on foreigners(often British people) just because they work or live here - who rarely learn our language, because it's too hard for and it's expected from us to speak theirs...