Would you give Japan its military back?
 

Been recently thinking about the changing positions of power in Asia. China's on the rise, North Korea is a joke of a country but it still boasts a dangerous military, South Korea is modernizing pretty quickly too. Japans Defense Force is tiny at around 200,000 active troops but they probably have one of the most modern militaries in the world based on their military spending. Some people have said they fear Japan may become a militaristic country again....though anyone in Japan would tell you otherwise. n. Most people there are disgusted of the idea of being militaristic again. some guy took over the Self Defense headquarters and gave a speech on how he wanted Japan to be strong again, but he was met with angry booing people...so he committed seppuku

From all the summers I spent in Japan growing up, I think I got a fair idea of what the country is like. Correct me if i'm wrong.... Nationalism is looked upon with disgust by the general Japanese population from what some of my friends told me. Kind of how people view the KKK and NeoNazis in American and Europe.

Americas got around 40,000 troops in Japan as part of the security treaty. While the Japanese support the military alliance strongly they also want the US to reduce the military presence there. I mean Japan is a 'big boy' now, out of the ruins of the 1940s into an economic powerhouse. I think they can take care of themselves now.... not to mention its very costly to station that many people overseas. Also, I doubt Japan would ever consider doing anything to lose the USA's support with its military.

I guess what im trying to say is they wont try to take over Asia again and massacre millions.

The current world climate as far as Japan goes isn't so much that the US feels like Japan is going to flip as soon as US troops leave and Japan is given a standing army again. The US politically enjoys having locations in the Pacific for their own strategic purposes.

well. in germany 50 000 troops are still based. and it has been a long time since Hitler...so, Japan won't see growth of its military for a wile.

I think Japan should be more responsible for its own defense...not saying it should turn away US military support. IF Japan changed its constitution and raised a standing military, it would GREATLY bolster peacekeeping in Asia. I beleive that would be in the USAs best interest as well as Japan is one of Americas closest allies.

It would take some slack of the US military and allow the Japanese to pull their own weight in defense.

My point was that the US doesn't care to let Japan pull their own weight if it means they can put their bases where they want. I'm sure Japan could do just fine on their own. That doesn't mean the US military feels like they should give up prime real estate. It's in America's best interests to have these bases, and they know it, otherwise they'd turn them over.

i gotcha.

Allowing Japan a standing military doesnt mean the USA has to give up its bases and position in Japan. it would just be an addition of a strong ally.

Its the Japanese constitution that forbids a standing army and the right to declare war. The USA has no say in if they can have a army or not, thats in the hands of the Japanese. If they were to vote re-instatement of the Army I'm pretty sure the USA is still entitled to keep its bases on Japanese soil as part of the military alliance they are a part of.

Well considering the US essentially wrote Japan's constitution, and it's extremely inflexible, never having an amendment since it was adopted, I'm not too sure how well that would fly.

honestly I doubt that a majority of Japanese people would even want to have an active military to begin with...

kinda like asking:
Would you let America have slaves again?
when most Americans wouldn't want any themselves...

Thats a great analogy James, thats the vibe I get from Japanese peopele. theyve denounced war and seem fine with it....if only everyone on earth looked at it that way....

but one day I think the general Japanese populace will find China to threatening to ignore. If things ever get nasty with China, USA and Japan...im pretty sure yamato-damashi will re-emerge in defense of Japan.

The problem is if Japan re-militarizes it would only push China to increase militarization as well....if anything it would be Japan to re-militarize in RESPONSE to Chinas ever increasing power.

I don't think that China can be dealt with by force.
Military size and the like are semantics when the momentum of China can't be denied it's direction.

Economics are the last front, not bullets, or it's a lost cause.

Well I'm fairly certain America would annihilate China in a war...thats not to say the damage would be one sided but America would come out on top for sure as of now. 1 million troops, top military technology overall, military positions all over earth, allies...mountains of modern weapons.

Im also fairly certain that will never happen as shooting China in the head would also mean shooting America in the head as long as our economies are intertwined.

Its kind of like marrying a b*tchy woman who is hella rich. You want the money but you have to deal with someone you dont enjoy....the two are holding each other by the neck saying, "I dont like you but I need you"




However, any Chinese expansion will no doubt be met with opposition...it could also be what scares japan back into creating an army

It will be nice to live in a country that has renounced war. I hate war films,no
story,it's just 2 hours of shooting "OH MY GOD MAN!" significant looks...

...But then again they have gotta be ready for China. They've got to work on making those robot suits. I think they're the future.

Well Japans got an army of Gundams, Godzilla, Metal Modzilla and Mothra hidden inside Mt Fuji....didnt you know ?:D OH yeah and Sadako from the Ring, shes on retainer too for defense of Japan...she comes crawling out of bomb craters and kills the enemy haha

The idea that Japan is somehow without a strong military is ridiculous. They have the 6th largest military expenditure in the world, only slightly behind Russia. They spend more than Germany does. Japan has a very strong military but it's focus is on defence rather than offence which last time I saw any surveys is how the Japanese people want it to remain. There's a few ultra-nationalists and of course some elements within the military that would like to see a more offensive role for the armed forces but most Japanese seem to be against that.

Yeah, a budget so badly spent it's laughable.
The SDF is a joke,
having said that, Japanese military could wipe out most countries' forces, just not much of a factor when we consider big-leagues

I tend to view the SDF as ultra modern, high tech and well trained though lacking any real experience. If they were to form a real army they would be formidable even with the big boys. Japan is still the worlds 3rd or 4th leading economy and as you said they spend a lot of money on their military as it is.

Japan's defense budget is much lower with the U.S. presence, problems or not. If they were to have to fend for themselves (and I don't mean non-allied) their expenditures for defense (self or not) would be much higher than I'm sure they would like.

Then there's the boost to the local economies outside of the bases. While some military personnel mess it up for the majority, I'm sure the pulling of military installations in Japan would decimate the local economies.

haha yeah, for some reason i can see japan making real life gundams xDD

But they have!

Sure! Doesn't Japan have a defensive military these days too? Germany has about 300k soldiers who help their allies almost every time..

Japan should have a similar unit if they do not already have that!

How does the Japanese military look like these days?

I was actually referring to the US Navy making that suit of armour a while back.

Oh lol I could have taken a look there by myself first :) but thanks for the link.

Everything is similar to what we have here in Germany. They should maybe get some more then we do because of the situation with NK.

Unit price of arms = Very high
Employment cost = Very high

To the dear United States;)
The price of arms is terrible and it is high. Cut the price a little. (´・ω・`)
The pocket money to the U.S. military that stations it is high.
.........cut the price a little. ｡･ﾟ･(ﾉД`)･ﾟ･｡

P.S.
The F-4 grandpa is a near death. Send a young man early.

oh man the F-4....i cant beleive we still have some of that in service. Time to get some new F-22s over there for aerial defense

F22's cost like 35 Million a pop...how many do you want?...Why you think the US is going to drones..

From what I can see, the only F-4s left in service with the U.S. military are aerial target drones serving with the Air Force's 82d Aerial Targets Squadron.

siokan was talking about the Japan Air Self Defense Force, which still flies a number of Mitsubishi-built F-4s as second-line fighters. It also flies Mitsubishi-built F-15s and the Mitsubishi/Lockheed-Martin F-2 (a development of the F-16). It's been looking for a replacement for a while, and according to this news report it is currently choosing between the F-35 Lightning II, the Eurofighter Typhoon, and the F/A-18 Super Hornet. (Japan had also considered the F-22, but that's not really an option now, since the U.S. Congress never approved an export version of that aircraft and has now shut down production because of our own budget problems.)

Japan has not yet made its final decision, but given the long delays in the F-35 program, and the fact that Japan likes to closely coordinate its forces with U.S. forces, which would be harder with an aircraft type never used by the U.S., the Super Hornet now appears to be the most likely choice. Whatever the choice, the F-4s would be retired, and the F-15s would move into the second-line role.

By the way, Germany and South Korea also still fly a number of F-4s as well. Unsurprisingly, both countries are in the process of replacing them.

This topic seems to be going of tangent a little.

My opinion!

Should Japan be allowed an armed force?

Yes...Everybody else has one.

Ultra-nationalism is a thing of the past century.

As for US bases in Japan (or other places) if both parties agree fair enough....but if not maybe the US should start paying rent at least.

It is Fighter aircraft to want Japan.
The wanted one is not Multirole combat aircraft. ｡･ﾟ･(ﾉД`)･ﾟ･｡
Because Japan's training time is more than other countries, the situation is serious.
Scrambling : about 300 times a year.
A lot of years that are are 1000 times.
(opponent:Ru~~~a,Ch~~a,N k~~ea,S kor~~)

F-22 impossible love
F-35 Are you ok?
Typhoon bargaining point is fearful
F-18 better than nothing

opponents
 

If you want to be an opponent of Ru~~~a, you need to have at least a nuc~~ar triad.:)

Well war films are terrible so for a selfish reason I don't want them to have a military.

It is going to be nice not living in a militaristic country.

Yes.

Japan is a new nation, with new people. I wouldn't oppose giving them their military back... unless there were indications that malicious plans were in place -- which I'm not aware there are, at this moment. It could also be a military established under certain precautionary conditions.

No, they have economic problems enough as it is without their military spending growing.

omg!!!! now if it only wernt a statue lol

Japan renounced war after their unconditional surrender at the end of WW2. Though Japan is an independent country nowadays, some conditions of the surrender remain in place to this day. These conditions are the main reasons that Japan has no standing military, and why American forces remain on Japan to this day.

This may sound extreme, but you have to remember that WW2 began less than a generation after WW1, which was falsely called "The war to end all wars". Germany quickly recovered from their defeat, and the reluctance of Britain and other countries to enforce the conditions of their Germany's previous surrender by force merely invited a far greater conflict which resulted in the deaths od countless people. America and the allies were not going to make this same mistake twice. Japan's surrender was "unconditional", meaning that they gave up everything; their military, all weapons of all discriptions, ownership of lands and businesses, their very sovereignty, to America.

America instituted great changes to the culture. The tenant-farming system was abolished, the land was taken from the landowners and given to the farmers. The ownership of the great industries was also changed. Douglas MacArthur more or less wrote the Japanese constitution himself, and made it less amenable to change than the American constitution. There were changes and revisions in the earlier years, but these were done by MacArthur and Washington, not Japan.

Some years later Japan regained their sovereignty, but it was conditional. And these conditions still apply to this day.

Those who remember the war (and there are still many such people in Japan) remember the hardships of that time, and the shame of defeat, and these are the people who are most opposed to Japan having their own military. To this day, service in the Self Defence Force is not necessarily seen as a good thing, and SDF soldiers are treated well, but are not especially respected. American soldiers receive more respect, particularly among old Japanese.

The time may come when America amends the treaties, and Japan will become fully independent, with their own military, but probably not in our time. It is in America's interest to maintain a large military presence in Asia, and the treaties with Japan provide a good excuse for doing so.

In military matters, China is not a signficant threat to America. China's economy is large, but it's margin is narrow, and the country's wealth remains superficial. Beginning last year, America deployed it's Ohio-class ballistic missile submarines to Asia. One of these submarines carries enough weaponry to destroy China's manufacturing infrastructure, and no less than three have been kept in rotation. These are in addition to the US carrier groups which are also deployed in the area.

Japan needs no military, and for the most part, it doesn't want one.

I must add that Japan would have to increase its defense budget if they were to regain its military. I'm sure they wouldn't want any more of their GDP to go to defense than is already allocated. That's one reason they want U.S. presence in their country.

It's not a statue.. didn't you know? ;)

I used to be able to see that thing from my apartment.

So you were in HigashiShizuoka then?

respect
 

Sounds like a nonsense.