Want to learn Japanese? LEARN ENGLISH FIRST!

[OHayou]

1) be nice to Nyororin - she's a really sweet girl
2) English may be important for us English speakers but a lot of business goes on between nations / companies / people with absolutely no English involved.

I'm sure some Chinese people would say that Mandarin is the most important language to know.

3) I think I am pretty fluent in English since I've been speaking it nearly 33 years and I study Japanese for an ungodly amount of time compared to how much I actually know. Maybe I'm just a slow learner (lol) but I am not sure knowing English makes it easier to learn Japanese.

I can't think of a language that would make it "easier" to then learn Japanese (maybe spanish for the sounds? or mandarin because at least you're learning Kanji)

[phishy]

You would assume english would be an extremely easy language to learn? Maybe I think that because it's the only language I know how to speak? I do have a bad habit of correcting people anytime they butcher the english language though...if its there native language that is. This is why I like rosetta stones approach to teaching languages. Instead of saying this word means this...it uses imagery and then tells you what it is in the language. For those of you that haven't tried using it I suggest you try it out. That's what I've started using and its awesome how quick you start catching on to things. Like it will show a man....and teach you how to say man...and then it will show a drink...and teach you how to say drink....and then a pictures of a man drinking...and you have to figure it out.

[acjama]

There is no learning technique or philosophy that would require knowledge of English before one can learn Japanese. The whole idea is absurd.

The connection with the most marketed learning material and it's language is imaginary, just like the the apparent connection with eating ice cream (because it's summer) and girls wearing miniskirts (because it's summer). One is not the causal result of the other.

Besides, it is quite obvious that the most successfull learners of Japanese (i.e. Japanese children) are really NOT using any English learning material. Or which Japanese language were you talking about?

[Nameless]

Originally Posted by henree08

If I can withdraw correctly, Arts text in Japanese are about a 1% of it.
There are many resources in otherwise languages, hence I must ask: Why is learning Nation so central to be proficient in Asian?

Maybe you are trolling, if so, then I can slaughter your language all I impoverishment.

I can haz butcha yo langah all I goo-ant and eu kant doo naughdhing.

Google translator?
Cool.

Also english is irrelevant on several situations, if anything people should be learning chinese because:

It has the hanzi, which are totally related to japanese.
It is a growing country with more native and secondary speakers than english.
With the current economic trend (please feel free to correct me here), chinese will become more relevant.

summarizing: English has no value in learning Japanese.

Edit: Lol half of what I said, OHayou had already said it, also a question for native english speakers is '... value in learning japanese' understandable? I am having a serious language amnesia.

[Nyororin]

English has no value for learning Japanese. Nothing in English helps you with the language, and you should be avoiding materials in another language when learning one to begin with.

Learning English in order to learn Japanese is so incredibly convoluted that I find myself having trouble even expressing how silly the concept is.
It is sort of like you having a broken leg and instead of going to the doctor and trying to start the healing process, you decide to wait until you are proficient at using a crutch to bother. It makes no sense in the long run.

I am a native English speaker and I found avoiding English and English language materials much more effective for learning Japanese. I was actually involved in a study following learners of Japanese as a second language. English language and English language materials did the complete opposite of help. There is a reason why immersion makes sense - isolation from another familiar language.

English may be a valuable world language, yes, but if you use that argument there is no reason to bother learning any language other than English. You start getting into "everyone should just learn English and communicate using it" territory.

Seriously though, not everyone is going to be in a life situation where speaking English will hold more value for them than Japanese (or any other lesser-by-your-opinion language).

[Pogopuschel]

I can't think of a language that would make it "easier" to then learn Japanese (maybe spanish for the sounds? or mandarin because at least you're learning Kanji)

Korean has almost the exact same grammar sas Japanese. If you speak Korean you can basically substitute Japanese for Korean words and you get a perfectly correct sentence. Even the honorifics are pretty similar. On top of that, a lot of words sound similar and the concepts/culture is as well. Or how do you think all these Korean Idols in Japan do it? Chinese uses Kanji characters, which reduces study time tremendously. The meanings/compounds may not be exactly the same, but still.

It's definitely *much* easier for people who speak one of these languages to learn Japanese. That's also what the JLPT statistics show, the average time spent to pass Level 1 of East Asian students is almost half of that spent by others!

[godwine]

Originally Posted by OHayou

1) be nice to Nyororin - she's a really sweet girl
2) English may be important for us English speakers but a lot of business goes on between nations / companies / people with absolutely no English involved.

I'm sure some Chinese people would say that Mandarin is the most important language to know.

3) I think I am pretty fluent in English since I've been speaking it nearly 33 years and I study Japanese for an ungodly amount of time compared to how much I actually know. Maybe I'm just a slow learner (lol) but I am not sure knowing English makes it easier to learn Japanese.

I can't think of a language that would make it "easier" to then learn Japanese (maybe spanish for the sounds? or mandarin because at least you're learning Kanji)

Cannot disagree, being Chinese myself, I always get asked the question "Why can't you speka Mandarin", it annoyed me to a point that I refuse to admit any knowledge to what little Mandarin I know...

Knowing Chinese (Not Mandarin, Chinese, we can discuss in another thread if you like) definitely give you some advantages with the Japanese language, a lot of the Kanjis share the same meaning as its Hanji counterpart, while it is pronounced differently, it does have a lot of similarities. cannot comment on Spanish, as I have absolutely 0 exposure to Spanissh, though I think, knowing Korean may help with Hiragana and Katakana......

[Realism]

Originally Posted by godwine

Cannot disagree, being Chinese myself, I always get asked the question "Why can't you speka Mandarin", it annoyed me to a point that I refuse to admit any knowledge to what little Mandarin I know...

Knowing Chinese (Not Mandarin, Chinese, we can discuss in another thread if you like) definitely give you some advantages with the Japanese language, a lot of the Kanjis share the same meaning as its Hanji counterpart, while it is pronounced differently, it does have a lot of similarities. cannot comment on Spanish, as I have absolutely 0 exposure to Spanissh, though I think, knowing Korean may help with Hiragana and Katakana......

Some Kanji have the same meaning...some don't

負債　- kind of
奔放　- uh....maybe
綿密　- no such phrase in Chinese
安息　- kind of
道場　- kind of
野犬　- sure
返済　- no such phrase in Chinese
無給　- no
宣言　- yes
強制　- yes
発火　- yes
喚起　- kind of
受精　- yes
頭金　- no such phrase in Chinese
黒板　- yes
等閑　- no such phrase in Chinese
膠着　- kind of
降着　- no such phrase in Chinese
証券　- kind of
歓喜　- kind of
着目- no such phrase in Chinese
喪失　- yes
図体　- no such phrase in Chinese
素質　- yes
罰 - yes
捕縛　- kind of


Exact words are few....but with knowledge of Chinese, you can "guess" on a lot of Japanese words.


And as far as learning English in order to learn Japanese.....

Just ask any native Japanese person did they learn English in order to learn Japanese.....

I'm sure you already know the answer to that question....

[WingsToDiscovery]

I would say (to native English speakers), LEARN ENGLISH IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN JAPAN. I'm not saying my grammar is spot on all the time, but there's a clear difference between making a small mistake and the tons of threads created on here like "i wan to live in japn and im 20 and i dont have a dgree and i was wondering if i culd live in japan."

If you can't articulate yourself in the most comfortable environment (your own home, where you can spruce up any response before submitting it), why would anyone want to talk to you about a job? Is this the way you would write an inquiry? For those of you who may say "I only write like that to my friends," what's the point? Learning two different ways to type; one stupid and the other proper for the sake of being cool or something? It drives me NUTS when people write like idiots.

[godwine]

Originally Posted by WingsToDiscovery

I would say (to native English speakers), LEARN ENGLISH IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN JAPAN. I'm not saying my grammar is spot on all the time, but there's a clear difference between making a small mistake and the tons of threads created on here like "i wan to live in japn and im 20 and i dont have a dgree and i was wondering if i culd live in japan."

If you can't articulate yourself in the most comfortable environment (your own home, where you can spruce up any response before submitting it), why would anyone want to talk to you about a job? Is this the way you would write an inquiry? For those of you who may say "I only write like that to my friends," what's the point? Learning two different ways to type; one stupid and the other proper for the sake of being cool or something? It drives me NUTS when people write like idiots.

Darn, you just burst the bubble(s) for a bunch of forum users

You know, funny enough, I start noticing the new generation having difficulities distinguishing "You're" vs "Your", "Than" vs "Then" etc... i think this fall in your category

Realism, I didn't say ALL Chinese character share the same meanings as it Kanji counterpart, I am saying "MANY", many != all. I also didn't agree to having to learn English and be fluent at it before one can learn Japanese, I am just joining in the debate to discuss what other language(s) skills will help make the learning experience (of Japanese) more enjoyable.