JAPAN TIMES re Hiroshima
 

On anniversary of Hiroshima A BOMB.

Hiroshima urges end of nuclear umbrella | The Japan Times Online

Coming of age with Hiroshima's mourning | The Japan Times Online


More.

How about this.....

Japan remembers the brutality it visited on the people of Asia and the stupid suicidal war it's militarist leaders embarked on when they bombed Pearl harbor?

Hiroshima is a memorial to what happens when a people allow their leaders to drag them drunk on nationalism to a war that ends up with a city reduced to a flaming cinder.

Kinda like, if you attack a bear cave full of bears, you get eaten.

I should mention that there isn't a single nuclear weapon that is less than 25 years old at this point. I haven't actually read up on the Goldwaters-Nichols stuff that ended SAC and started STRATCOM, but I get the feeling those weapons are getting a bit... old?

Not to mention that in this day and age, the only nation I can even think of that would be nuts enough to light one off is North Korea- and their missiles are more of a threat to shipping in the Yellow sea as the fragments fall to earth.

Good thing they don't seem to fancy building space colonies.

Iran actually is a bigger threat in that. They really want to send one to Isreal as soon as possible. Their leader thinks his the "Harbringer of the Apocolyps".

Wow. dude. So JAPAN attacked America so these CITIZENS, kids, women, unborn babies in their uterus, deserved to be burned in an atomic flame and their descendants should suffer from the aftereffect of the radiation for decades?

Wow. Just wow. Which hell are you from, mr. devil?

And the suicidal war? WHO was the one contemplated on how to "let them(Japanese) shoot the first shot" ?
Roosevelt!! it's in the Secretary of War, Henry Lewis Stimson's memorials! And who give the ultimatum, "Hull Note" to Japan, well knowing it meant a war? Do you know who shot the first shot at Pearl harbor? Have you ever heard of Flying Tigers? US is the country that dropped an A-bomb to an Asian country by the order of a KKK affiliated president, and there is not a tiny bit of exaggeration in this statement.

International politics is never a simple black and white. There are different views. I don't completely hold with Hiroshima Nagasaki sentiment either. But I think your view is a bit one sided dude.

Oh, wait, even 65 years later, America is doing the same thing to Iraq. Where was the weapon of mass destruction? Saddom was a bad guy (even though 'the weapon of mass destruction' was a downright lie) so these Iraqi citizens deserves killings and rapes eh?

I'm with ya cranks and I'm in the U.S. Air Force! :/

I'm also facepalming @ dannavy85 because we (Americans) DO note and remember Pearl Harbor (and 9/11 and other attacks on US civilians) but we don't exactly honor the dates we attacked the citizens of foreign countries. We will 'never forget 9/11' but apparently it's totally cool to forget bombing the shit out of Iraqi civilians we did in March-May 2003. It may not be 'fair' but nations tend to remember and honor their own fallen; the U.S. clearly does this so to say 'we can do it but the Japanese can't!" is so very very asinine. Moreover, nothing justifies nuking a country -- NOTHING. Radiation is far too inhumane for a modern nation to consider in its repertoire for warfare. And your attitude of "well that's what happens" is scary, I'm talking 'lacking empathy and sanity' scary (Timothy McVeigh scary!). Super overkill.

Thus I shall facepalm in the corner and hope that I'm not doomed to a fate of being a douche-y veteran when I get older...

Thank you. I love the US as much as Japan so I appreciate your, and all other military personnel's, service. I really do. I think Japanese have a lot to learn from Americans in that area. But killing people is never cool. I would probably be proud of myself if I was a fighter pilot and shot down an enemy fighter. That's fair. But 2 world wars, and Korea and Vietnam and Afghanistan and Iraq showed us that a war is not cool. I don't like the brutality of the old imperial Japanese military, but at the same time I don't like Chinese, American, British or any other countries' brutality back then. Let's be more cosmopolitan. Countries will be dismantled in several hundred years. Do people care if you are Yankee or Southerner today? English or Scottish? No. Bad things are bad regardless who did them. It's stupid to completely vilify one side. I don't care which side. Both did good things and bad things. And even those who did things we deem bad today, most of them tried their best to do good. With all their life.

I'm not saying military is bad though. It's the opposite. Military forces at this point of human evolution are very important and we need them and need to keep the balance among them so we don't get into a head on collision like WW2.

And how many civilians in Asia did the Japanese slaughter? Tell me what you know of the Rape of Nanking.

What hell were the militarists from? When one of your most senior Admirals (Yamamoto) warns you NOT to attack the United States? Why didn't you listen to him!

The Japanese leadership made the choice, much to the sadness and sorrow of the people.

Not at all. I know plenty of Japanese who agree with my assessments. I lived there for 15 years, did you?

Do you see Saddam's brats raping any more women BTW?

We acted on what intelligence we and 17 other nations had provided us. Blame Saddam for not being truthfull, trying to dodge UN inspections, corrupting the UN 's food for oil program.

They deserved to be free from the killings and rapings by your pal Saddam. And if we were so evil 65 years ago then why does Japan exist at all?

So it was totally cool to keep Saddam and his two murdering brats in power?

Wow....did I ever say it was wrong to remember what happened to Hiroshima? No...I say it should be remembered in context with the whole Pacific War. The Japanese are not victims, they allowed their government to carry them into a stupid suicidal conflict against better judgement. Hiroshima is as much a warning against blindly following dictatorial regimes as it is to the hell of total war.

Go talk to the Iranians then because if they keep going down the same road Japan traveled 65 years ago, Teheran will be the next Hiroshima under an Israeli nuclear warhead.

Have I ever said it was "cool"?

I won't apologize for it, we nuked em' and they gave up. It saved nearly 1 million GI's and millions of Japanese. War is hell, make sure to visit hell on your enemies as often as possible so they no longer wish to be in hell. That's the harsh reality about war.

By the way, Iraq did have WMD's...was enough strictnine to kill everyone in New York...the whole state. Plus, we found two trucks built to carry a certain style of nerve agent, one of the primary ones we were looking for...with the safty gear required to transport that nerve agent and the antidote for the nerve agent...the trucks were spotless...with trace amounts of the only chemical known to break down that nerve agent. Circumstansial true enough, but with terror cells possibly gaining passports from Iraq, we couldn't afford to take the chance.

It is sickening what atrocities are rationalized in times of war.

The mentality of a defeated nation is also sickening.

Japan, in terms of the war, and in terms of its relation to America, for the longest time, has been that of a beaten dog. A dog that bit it's masters hand and then had it's legs broken for it.

Tbh why should you appologise for it as chances are you were not born....it saddens me more that you mat romantacize it.


As for no WMD's but they had a couple of trucks and some strictnine......NATO must have been shaking in their boots.

last time i checked a nuclear bomb over a whole city killing innocent civilians and destroying future generations that are born there - compared to japanese air force personnel attacking us army personnel (not millions of innocent civilians) theres just no comparison, kinda reflects the whole american philosophy on war, kill everything that moves - whether its a women or a child or a combatant it doesnt matter - theyve got the weapons and they arent afraid to use them - even though they claimed iraq was a threat to the world due to weapons of mass destruction (that were never found) americas kinda been the only country to ever use them on innocent civilians (nuclear bombs I mean) – and lets not forget the phosphorus bombs dropped on Vietnam by the americans and that ever haunting image of that small girl running through the streets skin completely burnt – I’m not blaming the american citizens here just the people who sit in the nice air conditioned offices that make these decisions


BTW i cant believe some ppl are justifying using nuclear bombs on innocent people so it saved alot of american lives!! are u kidding me! an american life is NOT worth more then a japanese one or an afghani one or an iraqi one - and a few thousand people dying doesnt justify the occupation of 2 whole countries and millions of deaths of innocent people

i remember watching a documentary movie called 'the ground truth' about american soilders coming back from iraq who admit to killing anyone and everyone just because they were told to even when they knew those people werent combatants!! i suggest everyone give it a look in!

BTW HAVE WE FORGOTTEN BUSH HIMSELF ADMITTED THERE WERE NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION SO I DONT UNDERSTAND HOW SOME PEOPLE HERE ARE CLAIMING THERE ARE!!! AND THAT THE WAR ON IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11!!

YouTube - Bush admits that Iraq Had Nothing To Do With 9/11 - HERES HIM ADMITTING IT!!

well he managed to bring Britain into the war after 9/11


Will we ever know the truth re MAD. Blair obviously believed it in order to get our troops invading Iraq.


Blair took us into the war despite many of us protesting.

there is still uncertainty ABOUT THE death of matthew Kelly. He was treated abominably then found dead in fields near his home. I think he knew to much and the GOVT. wanted him out of the way

well. some countries do attend the fact that they did em.well...not evil (i don't really believe in a such word - just actions that happen without any of them being good/evil) but lets say - did some damage.
for example Germany. it is punishable by law to use the Hitler hand sign. also in schools there is great deal of effort put in to teach the young about what and how everything happened.
P.S war in Iraq. if im not mistaken they falsified the report thou originally it stated that there aren't any weapons.

P.P.S if anyone is interested about atrocities of war then by far the best movie i have seen is soviet story. it's in english. and i am not plugging it since it's Latvian made but god damn its good. i love the style of it. it's original, cool and i love narrator's voice. btw.was also presented at the EU.
i must stress that this is a heavy film to watch. like the parts were CCCR in period of 1 year starved 7 million Ukrainians to death.

WW2 had been going on for 4 years after Pearl Harbor. 400,000 Americans had died by then. Were the nukes justified? Yes. Japan wasn't going to surrender unless they were shown they had no alternatives. I'm not romaticizeing anything, that's simply how it was..I know it was horrible, the war was brutal. But in war, winning is what matters, because if you loose, the other side dictates how you live.

Hello? there was a massive amount of circumstantial evidence to indicate they had WMD's...Even Saddam's own generals were requesting them because they thought he had them too. All the worlds covert agencies, includeing Russia's, said he had them. We know he was involved with 6 known terror groups...and couldn't risk Bin ladin's group getting ahold of anything.

Can you imagine how the US would consider Bush if Saddam did have nerve agent x and Bin ladin managed to set up a bomb in the US that killed ten's of thousands with it? If you were in that postion..what would you do? Hope he doesn't have anything? or make sure he doesn't?

If someone is holding people hostage, and all your experts tell you he has a gun, you act as though he had a gun. To act otherwise is incompatent.

The President of the US must hold even 1 American life above any foreigner. He swears an oath on it. Truth be told I would hope the leader of any nation held his own people in higher reguard than someone not native to his land. I mean really...should Peyton Manning be more favorable to players on the other team than to his own team mates? That's what it's like with nation states.

I find this paragraph intresting, Im going to repeat with a couple of word changes (and tbh remove the whole Peyton Manning sentance as ive no idea who he is or what he does)

The Emporer of Japan must hold even 1 Japanese life above any foreigner. He swears an oath on it. Truth be told I would hope the leader of any nation held his own people in higher reguard than someone not native to his land. I mean really...

Really gives meaning about what was said about the victors writing history.

and no im not Japanese
or American

I completely agree with you. The US actually used the emperor to get Japan to surrender. Had it been the otherway around the Japanese woulda tried to use the president to get the US to surrender.

Manning is the quarterback of the Colts..and NFL football team. The analogy I was useing was team sports...I can change it to soccer, you would hope the coach of your national team cared more about thier team than about who ever they were playing, yes? I mean, how would you like it in the World Cup if the coach on your national team openly cheered for the team they were playing against?

Yes...like the Rape of Nanking which Japan refuses to teach to its school children or the Battan Death March.

Last time I checked, Hiroshima was a military Headquarters and Garrison and Nagasaki was a steel works producing military ammunition that made them both legit targets of war.

And how about Japan's bombing of civilians in China and throughout Asia?

It had everything to do with 9/11. Osama Bin Laden's 1998 fatwah calling for war against the United States was based in part on the abysmal policy on Iraq waged by then President Bill Clinton and the failed United Nations.

Bin Laden used the failed UN and Clinton policy on Iraq to increase his material, financial and manpower coffers for his declared war so yes Iraq was part of the eventual course to 9/11.

I'm not the kind of guy that goes to museums, and I didn't go to school here.
But I have been to a few museums with friends visiting Japan that surprised them and I a lot. They were about the atrocities committed by Japan during it's military control.

The common perspective towards it all by the educated populace of Japan is one of shame for it's history.
The common perspective towards it all by the average populace of Japan is "that was the past, it's not us, we are peaceful now and very happy about that"

In the wake of the recent events involving NK, most people I speak to here say "I'm scared, and I'm glad that Japan is peaceful so I imagine we would only get involved if we absolutely must"
Regardless of whether or not that is true, it's the common opinion, which in terms of culture is what defines a nation more than the actions of it's politicians.

Hopfully the passage of time will continue to retain that climate through the generations. I just hope they remember just who the victims were, who the aggressors were and why the Hiroshima peace dome is as it is.

danny, how come most of the sane world believes it was just a cover up? because it is so obvious. if there was a threat of another terrorist attack any normal leader would send in assassins to kill Osama and not start a war were half of the world is dragged in. the oil is the only real reason why anyone is there.
and found what? 2 cars as you say? still the report said there where WMD. so... if this war was legit why the need to falsify the report? BECAUSE ITS NOT!

btw. i love your speech about aggressors - comes from a citizen of a country which has had 10 major wars in 200 years. war in every 20 years - just bombing for "peace".

I am glad to see that there is some information re the Military Japanese atrocities. Their descendants need to know.


Yes at peace now--but it still demonstrated how the worst comes out of human beings in these wars.

They did not adhere to the Geneva convention-- so abusing those who were in their power


The emperors Uncle was implicated as well as that TOJO-- The military regime was all controlling of its people also.


I have the book SENSO which is a collection of letters sent to the ASAHI SHIMBUM in 1986 from those japanese who were involved in the war as well as the surviving civilians who were fire bombed.

It is well worth reading the book.

Who do you define as sane?

Assassination was declared not a policy of the United States under Jimmy Carter and that policy has not changed. Of course who bungled the many attempts to get Bin Laden during the 1990's? Bill Clinton.

Excuse me, who started the war?

Is it? Then why aren't we staying around and turning Iraq into our 51st state?

It was legit. Maybe if Saddam had complied with the UN mandates and not tried to block inspections, move equipment and state publicly that he had these weapons? Perhaps he would have been left alone don't you think?

sane? people who can clearly see the BS thrown at their screens about WMD when oils is all everyone is after.
no 3rd world leader is restarted enough to lunch nukes on strongest military force in the world.
not making into 51st state? well then it would be even more obvious why usa is there. at least now they have the lame excuse of WMD. at least was...
of course he blocked inspections. would you allow Russians to just walk in and check out your military stock?

The terms to end the fighting in 91 were signed by Saddam and part of the conditions were UN Inspectors. ..The moment Saddam threw the UN inspectors out, he broke the terms he signed and thus gave the US full right and authority to invade, by International law. WMD's or not.

Well, in that case. I love the recent Wikileaks controversies painting the US military bad. It will destroy the US Army and Navy from within. :)

You don't need a war to destroy the American military. You just need a smart Australian to set up a website to belittle the military.

Truth will set us free from any modern war happened in the past.

are you an AMERICAN?

Yes, ex army in fact.

Komitsuki, nothing bad has been shown in those papers, most of them are boreing after action reports. The only thing they show is how professional the American military really is. In fact they come out pretty fine because of it. The only thing anyone was concerned about is revealing names of people who aided us, since the Taliban tends to cut off thier heads. But I guess that's ok since they dared helped the "evil Americans" killing them is fine.


The army and navy prolly suffer more humiliation from who ever loose's the "Army navy" football game.

profis
 

Did you mean Iraqi war ?

The leaks had info both about Iraq operations and Afganistan. They dont really reveal anything other than names of peeps who helped us, wich I believe is what most folks are worrid about. Most after action reports are dull, you could read hundreds before even a hint of something "inflamitory" showed up.

Ummm.... tens of thousands of civilian casualties that they documented?

Ring any bells?

So? Most of those were caused by infighting and tribal hatereds that went way back before we were even a nation. The US didn't kill ten's of thousands of civilians, that's bunk. The arabs would probably respect us more if we did, they allways have respected power and those willing to use it more than fancy talkers.

I did say documented.

Not to mention that the US was responsible for way more deaths than it let on. Amongst the reports are thousands of incidents of civilians being killed by American forces at checkpoints. But it's not just civilians.. the US killed combatants attempting to surrender as well as unarmed combatants.

Its a strange dichotomy that as people we condemn others for the crimes commited in the past.

Yes Japan did do things in the past, but 90% of the people involved are gone.

This is not to say if any particuler crime can be bought to trial "WITH EVIDENCE" should not be punished.

But this whole "pointing finger" thing......there is no government/society/people that if you look into history thats innocent.

I know my society isnt...tbh the British were complete bastards.


Anyway to the point I do not believe a society should be made to repay/appologise or feel bad for the sins of the past

maybe not relevant to this particular thread but I bought a copy of Hearts and Minds-- it ws focused on the war in VIETNAM-- and quite honestly it was shocking.

These leaders that lie to their countrymen-- a very common thing I know-

but to see those innocent vietnamese people treated in the way they were by the Americans-- Yes we all are capable of terrible crimes.


But how many American troops could happily Napalm the place, stand and set light to the peasants straw homes and much worse. shoot them point blank as if they were just a DOG.

it does not take much to turn us into worse than any animal.


GOD!! Can we ever be forgiven for what we do or did!! All supposedly to fight communism. It is all sick making.

So what the blazes we are doing in IRAQ and Afghanistan I do not know.

War never seems to stop.

I blame propaganda for many of these crimes committed daily.