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The thing is, how can your "belief" superior to other people's? If you have been following the discussion, you know it is THE nub of it. If they say "I like dolphins, so I want them have special considerations. I'll compensate for your losses, so can you please not kill them?" It will be taken a lot more positively. The logic, "I AM SUPERIOR TO YOU! YOU SHOUD LISTEN TO ME!! OR WE WILL ATTACK YOU!!!" genocided millions and millions of Muslims. Have you forgotten crusades? Quote:
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If culture is similar to religion, then it should be okay to question it, criticize it and disagree with it.
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Japanese beliefs are not explicitly expressed as a faith, but people are actually pretty religious in their own way. I just want some respect. Not to me, but to other Japanese people. Really. I BEG you to respect other cultures. It's hard, I know. But unless we try, there is only war. |
the problem with this issue is the concept of "orientalism" as stressed by edward said, wherein he says that there's a phenomenon in the western world wherein they see the middle east, as for our case, the entire asia within the western lens; thereby, whatever the western culture says barbaric or whathaveyou, damn us.
in our side of the globe, we have been judged for eating dogs, as part of our culture, when in fact it was actually the americans, who taught the northerners to eat dogs to survive during ww2, since livestock are dying at that time and dogs are pretty much abundant. however, until now, they (americans) are still denying it. on the otherhand, since that certain province has adopted the practise as a means to survival, it has became their culture and we dog-loving southerners have no power over it; yet, our country is being generalised by dog-loving westerners as dog-eaters, which is unfair. to some extent, japan and us have the same "damn you __-eaters/killers" experience" (disclaimer: i am not implying that the american may have also taught whaling to the japanese ok? clear!) i have watched the cove and am quite disturbed, as i have been swimming and diving with dolphins at my mom's province all my life. yes, the movie revealed quite a lot with regard to the slaughter and how some locals would tend to cover up the act; but then again, as what others have mentioned, regardless whether this is a culture issue or not - if the japanese have proven by solid historic evidence that whaling is a culture similar to the scandinavian cultures - so be it. let's just respect no matter how gruesome it may seem to other cultures. and also, as others have also mentioned and as it has been reiterated in the movie, not all japanese are aware of it. on this note, i would like to conclude that the issue of "the cove" would be more appropriately addressed if taken on the side of "personal sentiments" rather than of culture. |
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One thing this is not is some huge cultural issue. What you don't seem to get cranks is that Japan is intricately part of the international community. Japan, even in it's own country, can't just do anything it wants without criticism. No country can. Countries all over the world come under criticism all the time for things they do in their own countries. During the previous government in Australia, a very conservative government, they cracked down massively on asylum seekers arriving in Australia by boat. I personally was appalled at their policies and so were many in the international community. Some Australians claimed other countries had no right to tell us how we should manage our borders. I disagreed, we needed to be told we were doing the wrong thing as good sense seem to have left many of the Australian public after years of quite effective government propaganda. One thing they never claimed though was that the attacks on the policies from other countries were racist! I'm not saying the Taiji issue is some major international issue for Japan because in reality it's not. It's only some very vocal and well organised animal rights groups making a lot of noise. I haven't exactly heard of any foreign governments putting any pressure on Japan over the issue. Yes there has been pressure to drop the whaling outside of Japanese waters but that's a whole other issue. The thing I see from the somewhat ridiculous arguments you are putting forward though is an incredible defensiveness and intolerance to any criticism from anyone outside of Japan or anyone who is not Japanese. And using cultural excuses and the racism card to deflect the criticism away from the actual issue, the slaughter of dolphins, and try and make into something else. If you think there is something so incredibly special about Japanese culture and the Japanese people that make it and them immune from criticism then it is you who seems to have the superiority complex. Being part of an international community means you will be criticised now and again, for gods sake get used to it and stop being so defensive about it! And trying to discredit my views because I'm not fluent in the language well look I've lived here almost 7 years. I do speak a reasonable amount of Japanese and I do have lots of very good Japanese and western friends who are completely fluent in speaking, reading and writing in English and Japanese. I don't live in an information vacuum because of my lack of fluency and I don't just get one side of the story. And I certainly didn't just get my information on Taiji from The Cove. I haven't even seen the movie! :rolleyes: |
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As I said before Im only concerned with addressing the points you made concerning my points (X Y and Z) of the whaling argument. I still cant believe that you are having trouble grasping the logic. I have business with Dolphins because to me they are self aware animals JUST LIKE ME AND YOU. They have the ability to comprehend their own death. Animals that arent self aware feel "emotions" based on pure instinct. Self aware animals not only feel that but recognise their impending doom. A cow or a pig in a field does not apparently. Let me lay it out for you. I believe that killing animals that are self aware is wrong. This in itself isnt a logical statement. But if you put it in context within human society then it is the only humane conclusion that one could come to. And I dont know why you continue to say that Im wrong about the whales and dolphins. Ive given you scientists and links which say Im right. That is good enough for me and the doubts you are casting on such opinion is not very convincing. After all, you gave me a link claiming that is said that "dolphins werent self aware" and when I checked the link it said that a strong argument can be made that they WERE self aware though the tests didnt prove outright. If that is not good enough for you then Im at the point where I think nothing will convince you. I dont think I said anywhere that dogs werent self aware therefore we should eat them... you are putting words in my mouth. I can probably give other reasons for why I wouldnt eat dogs. Just like I can give other reasons why I wont eat babies. When you say that I advocate eating babies and dogs because I dont feel that self aware animals should be killed, let alone eaten then you are making a huge error in logic. You are absolutely right about one thing. I feel that I am morally superior to the people who support whaling and dolphin hunting. I even feel morally superior to those that eat meat as I rarely eat meat except when Im a guest at someones house etc. Anyway... I think we've exhausted the directions in which we can go from here concernig whaling and dolphin hunting. If you want to have a discussion about why I think it is wrong to kill animals that are not self aware then feel free to do so with me. |
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the problem with some activists is they tend to generalise the whole scenario, which would normally start from a personal realisation (flipper's suicide as for the cove) and would make it a higher cause. on the other hand, some japanese are quite offended by the documentary because they are being scorned by millions of people for the gruesome slaughter; thereby generalising everyone as racist due to the fact that the naye-sayers are throwing lines such as "your government", "the japanese", "japan" to refer to the culprits. also, the problem with media, when the subject is way too emotional, hyperbola and myopia are often abused just to catch people's attention. [edit to add] so there... if you'd like to take the whaling issue as something personal, we can go ahead and talk endlessly about our personal sentiments, as i think this is where the argument is leading to. however, let's also be rational and not point fingers at anyone or any country, as everyone's also at fault here. |
ronin it's becoming a pointless argument don't you agree? We're dealing with someone who cannot accept any form of criticism of Japan from any foreigner. Evidently the only people who can comment on or criticise anything about Japan are the Japanese, who are of course completely totally impartial and extremely well informed observers. I mean the media here is just so awesome isn't? :rolleyes:
Any comments made by a foreigner are invalid because none of us could possibly even come close to having the slightest understanding of this incredibly unique and oh so very special culture. One so special that only the Japanese themselves can understand it enough to make any informed opinions. And of course we're all racist anyway. Any comments we make are always tainted by this racism. Even those of us who've chosen to live and raise our families here, we are all still racists too! How dare we ever express views or opinions on this great nation we can never truly understand? The twists and turns this debate has taken are just so ludicrous! I mean what a nationalistic nutter!! Quite scary in a way as he's certainly not alone in this sort of thinking... |
I agree with you on that GoNative and on mostly everything you posted before.
Its sad that this is being turned into a nationalist feud as I think the sooner this is recognised that for the most part this should have nothing to do with race or nations then we (being people who share my position) can start getting a lot of support in Japan. Anyway.. I am done for now concerning whaling and dolphins specifically but I will continue with the discussion on to what extent killing animals in general is right or wrong if cranks, or anyone else wishes to pursues it. |
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