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MMM (Offline)
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12-05-2007, 12:42 AM

I didn't mean to be hard on Nanjuu, but sometimes you have to carefully coax ignorance out of its hole, and other time you just stick a gopher-bomb in the hole and light the fuse.
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12-05-2007, 02:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchu View Post
, Honestly, shame on you, Pearl Harbor was the real tragedy! Those Japanese had no right! Bombing military targets like that ... What were they thinking. Perhaps they should have bombed civilian targets? Like New York! Like Osama... Like American to Hiroshima...

*Spews a little on American flag*

*Clears throat*

*Spews a bucket load on American flag*

... Better.
So, if all Americans today are responsible for Hiroshima, even though most weren't even born yet, how much more culpable are you for atrocities going on in Thailand right now? (Are you Thai, or a foreigner living in Thailand, by the way? If you're a foreigner living there, just substitute the below articles for appropriate ones from your home country)

Fiery Spirited Zionist: Muslim Atrocities in Thailand
ZNet |Asia | Thailand's Hilltribe Atrocities
The Don't! Buy! Thai! Home Page - FAQ
Thailand's Endless Woe - TIME
Western Resistance: Thailand: Muslim Insurgents Slice Off Victim's Ears

I guess these mean I ought to be spewing on a Thai flag and making the claim that maybe 1 in 100,000 Thai people are the exception to these stereotypes? But somehow I'm not, because I judge individuals, not their country of origin.


JET Program, 1996-98, Wakayama-ken, Hashimoto-shi

Link to pictures from my time in Japan

Last edited by samurai007 : 12-05-2007 at 02:19 AM.
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samurai007 (Offline)
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12-05-2007, 02:16 AM

double post


JET Program, 1996-98, Wakayama-ken, Hashimoto-shi

Link to pictures from my time in Japan
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Kenpachi11 (Offline)
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12-05-2007, 02:23 AM

Well hiroshima still has some radiation from the atomic bomb. But its not enough to do any harm to you



From the sky, To the ground
Rain is falling all around
Thunder rain and wind
A song of storms begins

Play a song, A melody
Then everybody will see
The hero of time
Has come
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MMM (Offline)
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12-05-2007, 02:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai007 View Post
So, if all Americans today are responsible for Hiroshima, even though most weren't even born yet, how much more culpable are you for atrocities going on in Thailand right now? (Are you Thai, or a foreigner living in Thailand, by the way? If you're a foreigner living there, just substitute the below articles for appropriate ones from your home country)

Fiery Spirited Zionist: Muslim Atrocities in Thailand
ZNet |Asia | Thailand's Hilltribe Atrocities
The Don't! Buy! Thai! Home Page - FAQ
Thailand's Endless Woe - TIME
Western Resistance: Thailand: Muslim Insurgents Slice Off Victim's Ears

I guess these mean I ought to be spewing on a Thai flag and making the claim that maybe 1 in 100,000 Thai people are the exception to these stereotypes? But somehow I'm not, because I judge individuals, not their country of origin.
He's Australian, actually.
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12-05-2007, 03:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM View Post
He's Australian, actually.
Ahhh, then we could bring up the treatment of Aborigines for instructional purposes...


I've been to Hiroshima as part of my trip through western Japan. I arrived in the city fairly late, so the museum was already closing. I walked around the peace park instead, and saw the burned out husk of one remaining building that was standing. It was dark by the time I left the park, and I was having a hard time finding the Hiroshima Peace Hostel where I was to stay that night. One of the 1st people I asked for directions was incredibly kind and helpful... he drove me around, asking other people where it was for me because I didn't speak much Japanese, and he had heard of the place but wasn't sure where it was. It took 45 minutes of driving around, asking and searching before we found the place! Turns out the guy was a member of the Hiroshima orchestra, on his way to practice when I happened to stop him for directions. I apologized profusely for causing him to miss his practice, but he said Hiroshima is an international city that gets many foreign visitors, and he said he felt it was the responsibility of the local people to help out the visitors as much as possible. I never faced any animosity for being American (and I never lied or hid the fact I was American, I'm proud of that fact).

He was just one of the many incredibly kind and helpful people I met in Japan, and I have a dozen more stories like that.


JET Program, 1996-98, Wakayama-ken, Hashimoto-shi

Link to pictures from my time in Japan
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12-05-2007, 06:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchu View Post
Samurai000,

I never said they were responsible. You made that up. I will not hold someone responsible for their fathers actions or what not. And I never said atrocities piss me off, you made that up. I said I was disgusted at the cowardice of the US during the WW2. They knew they were going to enter both wars, but they held back and let their allies be slaughtered so when they come into the fight they look like a knight in shineing armour, when truth be it, if Germany was fighting them from the begining of the war, as with Japan, then who knows who would have won. It was an extremely clever tactic that promised the victory of allied forces on both fronts, however it was extremely coward too. That is what my problem is. Read what I said and base what you think of me on that, not the thoughts going on in your head. You are a creative person, that is a good thing, but dont let you take it too far, okay.

Oh, and for your info, the reason I dont forgive now and I say this is part of American culture (cowardness) is coz they did dodgey stuff in Vietnam too, and again in Iraq. They have not changed.
You seem to have learned some fictional American history, so let me try to enlighten you. America in the 1930's was in what's called the Great Depression (Great Depression) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Millions of people were out of work, many farms were destroyed by the Dust Bowl (Dust Bowl) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, and the economy was the worst it has ever been in US history, before or since. We had aided Europe in WW1 and over 320,000 Americans were killed or wounded in what was often seen in the US as a European conflict that need not have really concerned the US. In fact, the US entering WW1 was sometimes called "Wilson's Folly" because Woodrow Wilson was the US President who decided to get the US into WW1.

So, the bitter and very recent memories of WW1 and the devastating effects of the Great Depression combined meant that the US really had no intention of entering WW2 when it started. As the war went on, FDR began to send some lend/lease aid to England and the allies, but was still determined to not personally enter the war, even after the German U-boats began sinking US ships in the Atlantic. It was not until 1942 that FDR began to change his mind and begin to think about the possible need for the US to join the war, but inertia still prevented him from acting. If the Japanese had not sneak attacked us at Pearl Harbor, FDR would have faced stiff opposition to any attempts to declare war on Germany and Japan. It might still have happened, but probably not for months, and maybe years, and by then, the Axis may have destroyed the other allies sufficiently that the war may have ended very differently.

Pearl Harbor not only gave FDR an excuse to join the war, it became a rallying cry for all of America, uniting the country and filling it with a will to fight and win the war, to buy War Bonds, to ramp up to a war-time economy, to invent new technologies, etc, etc. A divided and half-hearted America might well have pulled out after losing thousands and thousands of men in a single day numerous times, such as at D-Day and the Battle of the Bulge. Japan was always seen as less of a threat than Germany, and had they never personally attacked us, we might well have ended the war after Victory in Europe, assuming we accomplished that at all, and just let Japan keep their Empire so long as they didn't bother us.

That is what really happened, not some "cowardly" ploy from the start to hang back and ride in as the heroes of the day.


JET Program, 1996-98, Wakayama-ken, Hashimoto-shi

Link to pictures from my time in Japan

Last edited by samurai007 : 12-05-2007 at 06:56 AM.
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12-05-2007, 09:32 AM

Finally a voice of reason here. It's not like America was sitting on a mountain of guns and tanks, just waiting to use them after their Allies got the tar beat out of them for a couple of years. Unfortunately I don't think "facts" work on Tenchu, really. He'll likely just brush them off, claim you didn't understand what he was talking about, and continue hating Americans as a whole based on his own convenient knowledge of history. Anyone who thinks they know anything about World War II without knowing about the atrocities Japan committed in China during that time doesn't actually know anything about World War II. That doesn't exactly directly relate to America's entrance into World War II, but you get the idea.


郷に入っては郷に従え

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12-05-2007, 10:13 AM

@ samurai007

Not legally, but the US practically it did enter the war prior to pearl harbour... You really think the americans would let their ships get sunk without fighting?

In 1941 Britain ran out of money needed to buy arms from the US. But in March the *Lend & Lease Act* was passed, letting the president give away unlimited amounts of arms for free to allies.

In June 1941 US forces occupied Iceland, which you should know was close to the "danger zone"/"comabt zone". But German submarines got the strict order *NOT to use force against US ships*.

On 5th of September a US destroyer was told about a German submarine in the area by a british plane and immediately attacked the sub, which by the way, escaped. The US president remained silent at first, because the incident had been provoked by the US but on 11th September he ordered the US Navy to attack any german vessel as soon as they see it, "practically" declaring war on Germany.

On 17th September US warships started to escort the British from America to Iceland where the Royal Navy took over. Since Iceland was right in the middle of the battlefield, US ships soon came under fire. On 16th October submarines attacked a convoy that was escorted by british, american and french warships. 10/11 got killed.

The first US warship to be sunk on 31st October while protecting a british convoy.

Publicly Roosevelt said "he tried to avoid battle, but it begun anyway. History will tell, who fired the first shots."

Privately he said according to Winston Churchill: "I will never declare war, I will make war. If I ask congress to declare war, they will debate the matter for three months."

As you can see legally Germany declared war on the United States on December, but realistically the US declared it on germany in September or sooner.

As for japan a similar strategy was used by the US against Japan and it is one reason the conspiracy theories that the US government had advanced knowledge about the attack on Pearl Harbour. (though, consipiracy theories are just theories, the US government would have been stupid to ignore the signs that were pointing to a Japnese attack on Pearl Harbour, which was a huge tragedy btw, like anything and everything in a war/battle!)


Long story short, the people of USA might not have wanted a war for the reasons you stated, but the president sure did. And he started it unofficialy until Pearl Harbour because then the citizans of america fealt under threat for the first time in this war...
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12-05-2007, 12:35 PM

You wouldnt want to see a Japanese person at pearl harbour?
Ffs.
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