Xenophobic Japan?

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by MMM

Sometimes almost drag you? No one has ever laid a finger on me.

Obviously haven't walked past the wrong shops late at night then. It's does sometimes happen, although its very rare. I had it happen to me all of once in two years, and that was because I was walking past some massage parlor in Dotonbori.

It's assumed that intoxicated foreigner = lots of money for the shops, I'm assuming. I had no money at the time, and was in a wee bit of a bad mood, so I pulled away quite roughly.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Obviously haven't walked past the wrong shops late at night then. It's does sometimes happen, although its very rare. I had it happen to me all of once in two years, and that was because I was walking past some massage parlor in Dotonbori.

It's assumed that intoxicated foreigner = lots of money for the shops, I'm assuming. I had no money at the time, and was in a wee bit of a bad mood, so I pulled away quite roughly.

Black guys worked for a massage parlor? That's a new one!

[Nathan]

Obviously I missed a few details when I was reading the thread!

No, 'twas native Japanese individuals sir.

On a different note, I did notice quite a few elder Japanese citizens were indeed more afraid of / racist towards black people. I had one elderly lady say she was scared of a black couple in America when they offered her a seat on the bus.

Not so with the younger crowd. Although, it helped that there was a very fluent Japanese-speaking black man living in my area. I wish I had that man's grasp over languages.

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by Nathan

On a different note, I did notice quite a few elder Japanese citizens were indeed more afraid of / racist towards black people. I had one elderly lady say she was scared of a black couple in America when they offered her a seat on the bus.

Did she give a reason for why she was scared, when they were being polite?

[MMM]

Many times what we are calling racism is fueled not by hatred but by ignorance. Many Japanese have never met a black person in the flesh, so all they know is what the media teaches them, and that image is not always positive.

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by MMM

Many times what we are calling racism is fueled not by hatred but by ignorance. Many Japanese have never met a black person in the flesh, so all they know is what the media teaches them, and that image is not always positive.

I was actually trying to explain that to a relative of mine, who is positive that the Japanese would be racist against me if I were to live there since I am black. I then told her something like that, but she still feels that I'll be treated badly if I go. When she used to say that before, I always found it discouraging, and would have me second-guessing myself on whether or not I should take a chance to live there for a while, but now, since I'm older, I pretty much ignore that negativity and focus on the positive. In other words, I give the Japanese, in this regard, the benefit of the doubt since, like you said, they have very little exposure to foreigners, blacks especially.

[Wasabista]

Originally Posted by MMM

Why would you think the number is so low? In my city of Portland alone there is more than one "Japanese school" where all the students are either 100% or 50% Japanese. I would say that 2/3 of the students are 50% Japanese and that is a few hundred kids. Like Nyororin said, most don't live IN Japan.

I think if we're talking about MARRIED or engaged couples, the numbers are indeed very low.

I am sorry to hear you two have had such a negative experience with mixed couples. I do know of a few that have gotten divorced, but on the other side I know some Japanese grandparents that love having an excuse to come to America and visit their grandchildren every year.

I think your attitude, Wasabista, is a little outdated.

Well, if I have this little survey right, I have Nyororin on the one hand saying I'm right about the sabetsu, but that single Western guys have it coming to them; and you on the other hand, that the sabetsu doesn't exist. I think you'll find that Japanese parents still resist the idea of a foreigner dating their daughter/son more than they would if the boy/girl were Japanese. In the United States, which is highly open to immigration, it's almost impossible to imagine how an analogous situation could occur.

Nonetheless, I hope you're right that my observations are out of date. I have to admit it has been 15 years since I had to rent an apartment in Japan, for example. I'll walk into a fudosan next time I'm in the country and see if they show me a list of apartments. I'll post the results here.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Wasabista

In the United States, which is highly open to immigration, it's almost impossible to imagine how an analogous situation could occur.

I think you`d find that racial discrimination in relationships is VERY much alive in the US. Ask an average white family how they`d feel if their son or daughter brought home a black boyfriend/girlfriend. It happens, though perhaps not to the same extent, with Asian - white relationships. (And may very well happen with other interracial couples... I am white myself so can`t comment on anything other than how I know my family would react.)
I had people stopping me on the bus when we were visiting the US and asking me why I was with someone who wasn`t "nice and white" like me. The worst experience in Japan was hearing someone tell my then boyfriend in hushed tones that I was only after him for his money and a visa. In the US, everyone over 50 had an opinion and no qualms about showing it openly when we were out shopping. Shaking theirs heads at me, etc.

San Francisco, New York, etc are very accepting. But not everywhere is San Francisco.

I believe that yes, indeed, when it comes to relationships and marriage there is quite a bit of discrimination. But no more than in the US.

ETA;

I have to admit it has been 15 years since I had to rent an apartment in Japan, for example. I'll walk into a fudosan next time I'm in the country and see if they show me a list of apartments. I'll post the results here.

I`ve never had a problem in the past 9 years, although I can`t comment on the last 3 as we bought a place. When looking, I had no problems going to see places for sale either.

[Wasabista]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I think you`d find that racial discrimination in relationships is VERY much alive in the US. Ask an average white family how they`d feel if their son or daughter brought home a black boyfriend/girlfriend.

Nyororin, I was speaking about xenophobia rather than racism -- the two are related but not quite the same thing. That's why I compared the treatment of foreigners in Japan with that of foreigners in the United States. In this sense I think America's open immigration policy makes the distinction between locals and foreigners much less sharp than it is in Japan.

But I suppose if you compared the situation of foreigners in Japan to those of black people in the United States, you could indeed find a lot of parallels. On mixed-race" couples (even the phrase seems odd!), yes, a lot of white fathers would give birth to kittens on the spot if their daughters came home with a black man! (My uncle damn near shat himself when my cousin did that.)

So I take your point.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Wasabista

Nyororin, I was speaking about xenophobia rather than racism -- the two are related but not quite the same thing. That's why I compared the treatment of foreigners in Japan with that of foreigners in the United States. In this sense I think America's open immigration policy makes the distinction between locals and foreigners much less sharp than it is in Japan.

You`re right with the point you`re making here, but in the former message you were very directly talking about relationships. Either way, when Japan is the topic, it`s VERY VERY hard to distinguish between xenophobia and racism as Japan is a pretty much homogeneous society. "Foreign" almost always equals "different race". Even with other Asians, unless from a very similar country in appearance (China, Korea, etc) it`s pretty obvious that they`re not Japanese. I think it`s very hard to make that sort of comparison to the US because it`s an immigrant country to begin with. "American" is not a specific appearance or background... In Japan, however, it is.

In the end, foreigners in Japan are a racial minority, and will pretty much always be so.