Yasukuni Shrine?
 

Has anyone been to, or at least heard of Yasukuni Shrine?
I've heard a lot about this shrine in Tōkyō in the news. It is a very controversial shrine, because not only does it honour Japan's war dead, it also honours 30 A-class war criminals, including Hideki Tōjō!
This shrine continues to plague Japan's relations with China and with South Korea, especially when ex-prime minister Jun'ichirō Koizumi visited it in 2005 (in the same year, the Japanese government approved of a new school history textbook which apparently glossed over war time atrocities commited against Chinese and Korean civilians during WW2, that caused anti-Japanese protests across East Asia).
When I first read about the Nanjing Massacre of 1937, I was in tears. 300,000 Chinese civilians in Nanjing were murdered by the Japanese military, many others were raped. Even in Nanjing, China today, many people still recall these horrible actions. There is still quite a strong anti-Japanese feeling in China, and many Chinese and Koreans feel that the Japanese have never fully apologised for such war crimes.
Would you ever approve of me going to Yasukuni Shrine or not? (I'm planning to go to Japan next year). It may be worth going because as with most Shintō shrines in Japan, they are beautiful and have magnificant gardens and architecture (I went to Meiji Shrine in Tōkyō last year), and it might be worth seeing different points of view on history. On the other hand, if the actions the Japanese military commited against innocent Chinese and Korean citizens are unforgiveable, then I really shouldn't go to a shrine were Japan's war dead are honoured (it would be like the Germans honouring Adolf Hitler and the Nazi war dead).
What do you think?

You should go, Hennaz. You don't have to say a prayer for ol' Tojo, but if you've got the chance to visit something historical and controversial, you shouldn't miss out. I can't wait to visit Shuri Castle and the Reichstag. Maybe you could speak with some tourists or employees and find out what they think about the site and why they're there.

If you do not believe Japan should be forgiven for the crimes their soldiers committed during WWII, then why are you going to Japan at all?

Because the majority of Japanese that committed war crimes are dead or on their way out. If you can't be in a place where someone's committed an unforgivable crime, you'd never be able to leave your house.

EDIT: For anyone just now viewing the thread, no, this isn't going to get political, so don't start sh*t. I don't want another thread getting ruined by ignorant loudmouths.

We agree, we just have different ways of saying the same thing.

Yeah, it's just easier to say "Japan committed war crimes" than "the individual Japanese soldiers that committed war crimes during isolated occasions not necessarily supported by their government" :D Like, "The White House issued a statement today". One of those little synecdoches that comes off sounding wrong

Sorry guys, I did not generalise by saying "What Japan did", but "What the Japanese military did". And if the shrine does honour these "Japanese devils" (a Chinese ethnic slur for Japanese people), and it's straining relations with China and Korea, then does this shrine really deserve to exist? If the Japanese government do not apologise to China or to Korea for their war time wrongdoings, then relations with these countries will get worse.
Anyway, I love Japanese people and their culture, and the Japanese people today are MUCH friendlier towards foreigners than say 70 years ago.

Politicians are criticized for doing a lot of things normal people do every day. I wouldn't think twice about going to Yasukuni Shrine if I wanted to see it. Just as I wouldn't think twice about going to the Hiroshimi Peace Dome or some pro-Mao museum or anywhere else. If I am going to make myself a more well rounded and educated person, then going is good.

Yasukuni shrine is dedicated to all those who have died in wars, all over the world.

That`s it. The end. It`s not dedicated to war criminals, nor is it dedicated to those who died in WWII. At least, no more than in the way a cemetery in which war dead or criminals are buried. It`s not even dedicated solely to those in Japan.

Well then, that settles it! Thanks for setting the record straight Nyororin

the official homepage of yasukuni shrine says:

"When the Emperor Meiji visited Tokyo Shokonsha for the first time on January 27 in 1874, he composed a poem; "I assure those of you who fought and died for your country that your names will live forever at this shrine in Musashino". As can be seen in this poem, Yasukuni Shrine was established to commemorate and honor the achievement of those who dedicated their precious life for their country. The name "Yasukuni," given by the Emperor Meiji represents wishes for preserving peace for the nation.

Currently, more than 2,466,000 divinities are enshrined here at Yasukuni Shrine. These are souls of men who made ultimate sacrifice for their nation since 1853 during national crises such as the Boshin War, the Seinan War, the Sino-Japanese and Russo-Japanese wars, World War I, the Manchurian Incident, the China Incident and the Greater East Asian War (World War II). These people, regardless of their rank or social standing, are considered to be completely equal and worshipped as venerable divinities of Yasukuni."

at least i interpret this as it is only for those who died in wars for japan.

In my opinion a little sensitivity goes a long way though.

If you display the intelligence to distinguish Japan from it's past and the people of it's past who committed crimes against humanity from normal people who got caught up in the events of the day then I think you'll find that people will be less begrudging, if at all when discussing the subject.

I agree. When I discuss this subject or any other touchy one, I try to be correct in who I point fingers at. I'm not really saying it's okay to be insensitive, just that it's common, and usually harmless, for people to call individuals by their country's name. Like when we say "Iran did so and so", well I'm sure there were some people who disagreed.

Ah... I see what you're saying. :D

Yeah I do that too I suppose if the context of the conversation allows me to or the people I'm discussing whatever topic with I'm familiar enough with for them to know what I'm saying.

I would visit it. My grandfather fought in the war of the Pacific, and lost many friends. He held no grudges against the Japanese. People of his time were not strangers to war, and the horrors that came with it. Arriving in Tokyo escorting the Missouri, he was present at the signing of the surrender.

Quite surprisingly, he found himself treated with respect by the Japanese, who were by then long tired of war, and naturally respectful to any enemy strong enough to have defeated them. Allied soldiers were not as well respected in defeated Germany, remnants of the Nazis still on the loose frequently attacked allied soldiers for nearly 2 years following the end of the war, until they were all eventually hunted down and shot or hung.

My girlfriend's grandfather was also a veteran of the war, having worked as an interpreter until he was captured by the Americans and held as a POW.

The Chinese are different, they seem to have much longer memories than westerners. If I go to a Chinese restaurant in America with my girlfriend, somehow they immediately know she is Japanese, and they are noticeably less friendly. It doesn't matter that the war occurred many years before either they or she was born, they are still resentful.

Dedication in the 19th century has little to do with how it is considered now. As for those "enshrined" in the shrine, you have to be registered there for that to happen... And as I would assume 99.9% of those registered there are Japanese - being as the shrine itself is in Japan - it is going to be overwhelmingly Japanese.

That doesn`t change the popular view that it is dedicated to those who died in wars the world over. And even if we do limit it to only those in Japan, the only criteria for being there is having died in a war... Well, no, criteria is a bit harsh. I believe that anyone Japanese who dies in a war is automatically registered by name there. Out of however many people whose names are there, certainly a few are going to be criminals...

But the majority are regular people. My husband has several relatives whose names are there - it`s cruel to rule the shrine out because there are a few black specks. I highly doubt anyone goes there thinking of war criminals while they pray. They pray for all those who have died in wars. People throw fits about officials going to pray there, but I`m personally more shocked if they don`t... That is denying the sacrifices everyone ELSE enshrined there made.

i'm sorry, i must have missed that the popular view is that the shrine is for all those who died in wars all over the world, regardless of the country they were fighting for.

what many of those being negative to the yasukuni shrine argue is that (in no particular order and not exclusively):

1. it enshrines war criminals, convicted by a court recognised by Japan
2. the war criminals did not die in a war, they died during peace time. only those who died in war should be enshrined
3. state and religion is separate in Japan, the shrine is a religious monument.
4. the war criminals were enshrined years after their death
5. the yashukan, the shrine-owned museum, has a very one-sided presentation of the second world war, and is also sometimes accused of revisionism