Foreigners in japan

[Niknaizorai]

To state an opinion is easy. To backup your opinion with research is another thing. That takes time.

Most importantly, it is not what you say but your attitude and how you make your point in discussion.

He explains the art of Hara because he considers that important for the West to understand Japan, because in "haragei" one finds a key operating principle to be followed by anyone who wishes to be a sucessful communicator in Japan.

Just in case you dont know, he passed a very rigourous exam given by the US Embassy in Tokyo for Japanese simultaneous translators. He was born in 1940 and he researched intercultural communication problems in depth.

These are extremely basic concepts to understand if you want to really, sincerely, venture into Japanese way of communicating.

Some researchers have devoted a lot of time to think and research about these issues and I would not advise you to challenge them blindly. You fooling no one and you are not doing yourself any good.

This people provide very essential insights into the Japanese culture.

I quoted (" ")him and I stated the source of this information to backup my opinions.

I was laying out a framework for a constructive discussion.

Forum was a place where in ancient Roma people used to exercise open discussion.

By the way, I didnt join the forum to play ping pong.

[MMM]

There is no need for this discussion to continue as it is. This thread is about foreigners in Japan, not chest-thumping. Let's get back on topic.

[burkhartdesu]

I haven't read any of the other posts, so I pre-apologize if I copied someone else's answer...


But from what I've gathered, Japanese people tend to keep their space from everyone-- especially foreigners. It's a really a matter of 'comfort zones', not a dislike for people, that keep them from openly interacting...

Though I would have random people come up and do 'drive-by' photos with me, all the while asking me if I was American-- with the biggest chiizus on their faces!

And I also had little old ladies scoot away and prude up when I came around-- but I've also had little old ladies sit next to me and fan me off on park benches!

In general, I think they react pretty well to foreigners-- it's near celebrity status... Unless you're a creep, and/or ugly.

[ThirdSight]

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

I would just caution foreigners about working for Japanese companies. They expect you to act like a Japanese worker even though you aren't.

I know there's the difference between being Japanese and working vs. working at a Japanese job, but isn't it the same in any country you go to? If a foreigner comes to America, an employer will treat them like every other American employee. Makes sense that the Japanese would think along the same lines.

Though I can agree with your point, work ethic can be a big culture shock to foreigners if they're not prepared for it.

Chest-thumping?

[MMM]

Originally Posted by ThirdSight

Chest-thumping?

Talking about "respect" and defining "forum" and other unneeded remarks when one's opinions aren't agreed to.

[bELyVIS]

Originally Posted by ThirdSight

I know there's the difference between being Japanese and working vs. working at a Japanese job, but isn't it the same in any country you go to? If a foreigner comes to America, an employer will treat them like every other American employee. Makes sense that the Japanese would think along the same lines.

Though I can agree with your point, work ethic can be a big culture shock to foreigners if they're not prepared for it.

Chest-thumping?

I think American companies are more respectful to foreigners because there are laws against discrimination that are enforced. Plus, we are more accustomed to foreigners since our country is made up from foreigners.
You can't expect foreigners to know all your customs and if you wanted them to you should assign someone to teach them. Also, I am in the habit of listening to anyone who has more knowledge and experience no matter if they are a foreigner or not. The Japanese never listened to us because we were foreigners (this is not just my opinion but I was told this point blank by a Japanese co worker who understood these things). I was never called "sensei" by my students (no, I wasn't teaching English but a technical science) although when my first year students started assisting the new students they were addressed by this.
I guess it all comes down to respect. While a few Japanese there respected us, most (including our bosses) didn't. I later found out that Japanese companies are well know for getting what information they need from foreigners and then getting rid of you. They tried everything in the book to try to get us to quit our contracts, but when they figured out we wouldn't quit they ended up buying out our contracts (at a big profit to us) and sending us home. I am happy to say that after we left complaints went up, demand for the services went down and the program was shut down.
I don't hate Japan or Japanese, just the way the companies treat all of their workers. Most Japanese workers feel the same way but they are stuck there. To understand my feelings you would need to work there.

[Koir]

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

I guess it all comes down to respect. While a few Japanese there respected us, most (including our bosses) didn't. I later found out that Japanese companies are well know for getting what information they need from foreigners and then getting rid of you. They tried everything in the book to try to get us to quit our contracts, but when they figured out we wouldn't quit they ended up buying out our contracts (at a big profit to us) and sending us home. I am happy to say that after we left complaints went up, demand for the services went down and the program was shut down.

That's horrible. But it is good to know that their actions had negative consequences, which just may convince them to change their policies to retain useful employees regardless of divergent origins.

[bELyVIS]

Originally Posted by Koir

That's horrible. But it is good to know that their actions had negative consequences, which just may convince them to change their policies to retain useful employees regardless of divergent origins.

That is my thinking too. I wouldn't care about race, sexual orientation, or any other difference if I was the boss and was making money while keeping my customers happy with the service.
I guess to say I was happy they failed would be wrong because my American employees and I worked very hard for several years to set things up. We were never allowed to be late or sick for work (Japanese were able to) and I am proud that we never were. I am happy that they were able to see that our experience was still needed and that their thinking was wrong. But it is too late for them now.

[Onyx]

Originally Posted by godwine

One example, will be the incident at Tsukiji, they now banned tourist from entering Tsukiji, thanks to a few individual who decide to act like an idiot: Tokyo fish market bars tourists | World news | The Guardian

So, as long as you don't do anything outrageous to give people a reason to hate you, you should be fine

Wooow! I went to Tsukiji late may in 2008, i remember them saying now Flash when taking pictures, but now tourist and onlookers are banned!? I'm even more happy i was implored to go to Tsukiji by a Japanese girl who was staying at my hostel. Time to edit and upload these vids to you-tube.

Back Story--
She asked me if i wanted to go to "the fish market" with her and her friends at like 5am by this time it was already 2:30 after i night out in Shinjuku.. I respectfully declined because i hadn't slept since landed in Japan some 3 days earlier, and was uninterested in seeing fish at "the fish market"

Her: You must must go, many tourist love the fish market its very famous event, even for Japanese!

Me: Ya Ive heard about it, but, right now its just not on my list of things to
do... But thank you so much for inviting me, i really appreciate it.

Her: Onyx, you must come with us, i would really like you to come. I want you to see and it would make me happy (^_^)

Me:... Ok, you convinced me What time should we leave to get there?

Her: We are going to leave in 30 minutes to ride our bikes there.

Me: Bikes?? Ya.. I think im gonna stay here, i really don't feel like bike riding right now, i might just pass out lol. But Again, thanks for inviting me, you guys go and have fun

Her: .. (consults with her friends for about 10 seconds in Japanese) Ok, you can still come with us, we will take a cab so you can join us

Me: No way, i cant let you do that, i don't want you to change your plans just for me. I really appreciate your kindness but please, i would feel guilty if..

Her: No! I want you to come, it would make me very happy and i think you will like it. It ok don't worry ^_^

Me: Ok you win C-san, im come with you guys..
Her:

So, to the original poster, the Japanese can most hospitable, to the point of confusion lol. This particular person was EXTREMELY helpful to me on many many more occasions than the one just cited. And sometimes, while i was looking at the subway maps trying to figure out what ticket to buy, people would come up to me and try in their best english to ask if they could be of assistance. I always smiled and said thank you so much.

Once, i was o lost coming back from Shibuya my first time, i asked this young lady in my broken Japanese witch way is the "Oedo" line to Kurame?.. She pointed and said a 2 to 3 sentence phrase of witch all i could understand was "that way , down, left under left, next to" I must have had the most confused looking facial expression as i said thank you and began to walk in the direction she pointed me.. Then she said " chotto mate" and walked me 5 minutes out of her way to where i needed to go..

So, ya 98% of my experience with Japanese people in Japan were extremely positive. Just be respectful,nice and courteous and you should receive the same treatment multiplied exponentially.

Edit: sorry for my lil book.