Geisha --- is it art?

[Aniki]

Is Geisha an artist? Yes, I believe so.
A Geisha must know to dance (which is art), to sing (which is art), play instruments (which is art), know the tea ceremony (which is also art). All of these skills are a part of Geishas primary art - the art to entertain and comfort men.

Originally Posted by theAlphaDuck

surly art is all about new ideas?
in geshia...there are no knew ideas...just the old ones...

Let me put it this way: If Marilyn Manson made an only song in his carrier and that song would be his own version of 'Sweet Dreams (Are made of this)' which was originally made by the Eurythmics. You would still call him an artist, even if it's the same song.

The same thing goes with Geisha. Even if there are no new ideas, and just old ones, they are still artists, because every Geisha sings the same song differently, dances the same old dance differently, talks about the same topic differently.

Originally Posted by theAlphaDuck

to me....it is almost like geisha is moving statue

If you haven't realized, you just agreed with the fact that geisha is art, because a statue (no matter what kind it is) is a form of art.

[amuchan]

I think Geisha is a art. You have to study and work hard to become one. They study music and dance and whatnot and when they perform, there intereprting emotions and thoughts through dance. So I believe it is a art.

[theAlphaDuck]

Originally Posted by Aniki

Let me put it this way: If Marilyn Manson made an only song in his carrier and that song would be his own version of 'Sweet Dreams (Are made of this)' which was originally made by the Eurythmics. You would still call him an artist, even if it's the same song.

hmmm but mr manson CHANGES the song...its a cover...almost completely different to the original...

but with geshia its EXACTLY the same dance and song as has been sung and danced for many years...

to be a plumber requires one to learn a skill for a long time....

infact a Plumber has MORE creative imput than a geshia...yet you wouldn't call a plumber an artist...or would you?

[amuchan]

Originally Posted by theAlphaDuck

hmmm but mr manson CHANGES the song...its a cover...almost completely different to the original...

but with geshia its EXACTLY the same dance and song as has been sung and danced for many years...

to be a plumber requires one to learn a skill for a long time....

infact a Plumber has MORE creative imput than a geshia...yet you wouldn't call a plumber an artist...or would you?

erm a plumber unplugs sinks and toilets, hardly a art. nothing really to plumbing, anyone could go for it. But geishas do the same dance to express a message, it is a tradition. It is a historical art. In high schools they do Romeo And Juliet, probably one of the most famous plays in the world, it is also a historical art because many people have played the parts, but they have each done the part in their own way yet following the traditions. Geisha girls do that also. They put a little something of their own in the dance, whether you see it or not.

[theAlphaDuck]

ok first...a plumber does MORE than plugs and sinks....

he is the ARCHITECT of your gas, water and heating systems

.....

yes geshia's do a dance to express a message.....but they have no INPUT on that message....
with Romeo and Juliet you are free to interpret the play however YOU see fit.... thus no two perfomances of the play will be the same...

however in geshia dance...there is no room for being creative...every muscle movement is carefully choreographed......there is NO creative imput from the geshia on the dance....

what they are doing is artisitc.....but i do not think that the geshia themselves...can be described as artists..."mother" perhaps....

i am hoping to be convinced otherwise...but so far have not

[amuchan]

Originally Posted by theAlphaDuck

ok first...a plumber does MORE than plugs and sinks....

he is the ARCHITECT of your gas, water and heating systems

.....

yes geshia's do a dance to express a message.....but they have no INPUT on that message....
with Romeo and Juliet you are free to interpret the play however YOU see fit.... thus no two perfomances of the play will be the same...

however in geshia dance...there is no room for being creative...every muscle movement is carefully choreographed......there is NO creative imput from the geshia on the dance....

what they are doing is artisitc.....but i do not think that the geshia themselves...can be described as artists..."mother" perhaps....

i am hoping to be convinced otherwise...but so far have not

You are right about the plumbers, what I was trying to say though, anyone could do it. Geisha is special though. There are specific terms in order to be a geisha. OKay fine, let's just say I will go with you on saying the performers are not a art. But you agree the movements of geisha and the dance are a art correct? So geisha is a tradition and these girls are following it specifically, though they are not art? To me, that doesn't make sense. If your performing a tradition, you are becoming art with your movments and the way your doing it. Am I making any sense?

[theAlphaDuck]

perhaps a good way to look at it is:

geshia is like a living painting...painted by a painter long dead...and probably forgotten by most.

...the geshia herself becomes the art....but she does not have ANY influence on what kind of art she becomes...this has all been decided for her WELL in advanced...

as for who can become a geshia...ANYONE....who is female....its not that hard

[Aniki]

Originally Posted by theAlphaDuck

hmmm but mr manson CHANGES the song...its a cover...almost completely different to the original...

but with geshia its EXACTLY the same dance and song as has been sung and danced for many years...

I see you didn't fully understand what I meant. Yes, of course he changed it, and it sounds differently, different tone and rhythm, but it's still the same song with same words in it.

It's the same with Geishas, yes maybe they sing the same song, but each Geisha has a different voice, and sings it differently.
Besides, I bet you haven't seen a live Geishas performance, so can you say that they all sing and dance exactly the same way like it was done centuries ago. You have nothing to compare with.

Originally Posted by theAlphaDuck

to be a plumber requires one to learn a skill for a long time....

Actually no. You don't need a lot of skill to be a plumber. I know it because I there was a time when I worked as a plumbers assistant.

To become a Geisha requires a lot more time, patience and effort than to become a plumber. Everyone can become a plumber but not everyone can become a Geisha.

Originally Posted by theAlphaDuck

infact a Plumber has MORE creative imput than a geshia...yet you wouldn't call a plumber an artist...or would you?

Yes I would call a plumber an artist. A plumbers job doesn't end with just unplugging sinks and toilets, but also the creativity in designing a best way to connect pipes in the bathrooms, kitchens and toilets so that water could stream easy. So the way a plumber designs in every house could be considered a weird form of art.

[theAlphaDuck]

i have seen geshia perform..all be it not live....

have YOU seen geshia perform live?

i think you misunderstand the purpose of this thread....

its not to degrade geshia....

but it is simply to ask the question....what are they....

one cannot call them ARTISTS...... but it is also wrong to say that waht they do....dancing, singing, make tea...[is not] is AN art...

its a grey zone....

also ANYONE can be geshia.....its not that hard....sure its a skill...but everyone can do it....there are many things that NOT everyone can do...geshia is not one of them.

[amuchan]

Originally Posted by theAlphaDuck

i have seen geshia perform..all be it not live....

have YOU seen geshia perform live?

i think you misunderstand the purpose of this thread....

its not to degrade geshia....

but it is simply to ask the question....what are they....

one cannot call them ARTISTS...... but it is also wrong to say that waht they do....dancing, singing, make tea...[is not] is AN art...

its a grey zone....

also ANYONE can be geshia.....its not that hard....sure its a skill...but everyone can do it....there are many things that NOT everyone can do...geshia is not one of them.

I disagree. To be a geisha, you have to have the talent, body coordinates, hardwork ethic, and lots of practice. Not everyone can remember the movements or the tradition, it is hard. They are a art, entertaining with a old tradition. So No, not just "anyone" can do, it is like indian dancing, they have hand movements for the sun and the moon and others, and if you do it wrong you look horrible. Not everyone can move their body like that and be graceful and beautiful as a geisha girl.

Videos: YouTube - Geisha dance

YouTube - Traditional Geisha Dance

YouTube - Geisha Fan Dance

Geisha Dances ^