Why do many japanese want to have white skin?

[bELyVIS]

Originally Posted by MMM

How have I proven I don't understand the feeling of being alienated. I lived three years in a city of over 100,000 people and knew only two other people of my race who lived there. But maybe you are right. I actually didn't feel alienated there because that only would have slowed me down. I felt very much a part of my neighborhood and work community, even if not everyone around me felt the same way.

Good post.
We all feel alienated once in awhile. But that is because we allow ourselves to be.
I lived in a very poor part of Brazil with a friend who grew up there and his family still lived there. At first, I felt strange being a American who never saw poverty like this and earning more than 4 times what these people were earning. Once I figured out I was the one doing this to myself, I went out and made a bunch of friends. We learned alot from each other and at this point my life was great. I no longer cared about anything but my new friends, not what I had or what they didn't. People are people and there always be good and bad. Go find the good ones no matter were you are.

[bELyVIS]

This forum cracks me up. Where else will you see a thread like this next to one like "Which anime character would you most like to date?"

[MMM]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

I WAS JOKING. It was my way of trying to get you to relax. I am REALLY tired of fighting on this thread. I just want you to relax, I want me to relax, I just want to talk without all of these accusations of accusing and fighting and insults. So. It was a joke. Okay? You get it? It's funny.

Maybe it's because it's the Internet, it's hard to get a joking tone across. I'll make sure to say I'm joking next time.

Anyway. Like I said, I'll check it out later. When I'm ready. Because yes, I remember feeling upset. I still feel upset. I don't want to feel upset anymore. Reading your post will most likely make me feel upset, so I don't want to right now. Don't worry, I'll read it eventually.

Your time of alienation sounds interesting. You should talk about it more often.

Sorry, I didn't get it as a joke. That's the Internet. Sarcasm doesn't come through.

I don't really talk about my time of alienation because I never really felt alienated. That was the difference between me and the woman I wrote about earlier who "lost it" in Japan and her mother had to come pick her up and take her home after a few months. She felt completely alienated and isolated. The funny thing is, she had more native-English speaking friends than I did. Her community didn't alienate her, as mine didn't alienate me. She alienated herself, and paid the ultimate price.

I don't want you to read something if it going to make you upset. I would rather we get back on the topic, actually.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

Good post.
We all feel alienated once in awhile. But that is because we allow ourselves to be.
I lived in a very poor part of Brazil with a friend who grew up there and his family still lived there. At first, I felt strange being a American who never saw poverty like this and earning more than 4 times what these people were earning. Once I figured out I was the one doing this to myself, I went out and made a bunch of friends. We learned alot from each other and at this point my life was great. I no longer cared about anything but my new friends, not what I had or what they didn't. People are people and there always be good and bad. Go find the good ones no matter were you are.

Thanks, bELyVIS. I made a core group of friends when I lived in Japan who still visit at the same old watering hole every year.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

Good post.
We all feel alienated once in awhile. But that is because we allow ourselves to be.
I lived in a very poor part of Brazil with a friend who grew up there and his family still lived there. At first, I felt strange being a American who never saw poverty like this and earning more than 4 times what these people were earning. Once I figured out I was the one doing this to myself, I went out and made a bunch of friends. We learned alot from each other and at this point my life was great. I no longer cared about anything but my new friends, not what I had or what they didn't. People are people and there always be good and bad. Go find the good ones no matter were you are.

Believe me, I am. I have wonderful friends of all races and backgrounds. I love them all very much.

I'm also looking out for the bad ones, though, because I want to make a change. I personally don't think it's all right to watch any type of oppression and not say or do anything about it, because I've learned from many experiences that silently hurting about it doesn't help me or anyone else. I mentioned before that some white friends of mine have expressed pain and discomfort being alienated. If they hadn't told me, they would've silently been in pain. What good does that do?

I do think it's beautiful to find the inner peace that both you and MMM have described, but that's not for me. I prefer to fight.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by MMM

Sorry, I didn't get it as a joke. That's the Internet. Sarcasm doesn't come through.

I don't really talk about my time of alienation because I never really felt alienated. That was the difference between me and the woman I wrote about earlier who "lost it" in Japan and her mother had to come pick her up and take her home after a few months. She felt completely alienated and isolated. The funny thing is, she had more native-English speaking friends than I did. Her community didn't alienate her, as mine didn't alienate me. She alienated herself, and paid the ultimate price.

I don't want you to read something if it going to make you upset. I would rather we get back on the topic, actually.

All right, I agree!

[MMM]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

I mentioned before that some white friends of mine have expressed pain and discomfort being alienated. If they hadn't told me, they would've silently been in pain. What good does that do?

I do think it's beautiful to find the inner peace that both you and MMM have described, but that's not for me. I prefer to fight.

The woman I knew felt she had no one to talk to, and in the end she broke from reality, so you are right. It does no good.

I don't know that I have found inner peace, and I am not saying your friends didn't experience true alienation, but I did meet a lot of people in Japan that were in the same situation that I was and saw things I couldn't see (Japanese people getting better service than non-Japanese at restaurants, for example). They called it racism, I called it paranoia.

Example after example was shown to me, and most of the time, I couldn't see it. ("See, he has 10 meatballs in his spaghetti, and I only have 9!" "We ordered before that table, but they got their food first!")

It is interesting talking about this here, as I had (and still have) dozens of Japanese friends in Japan, and I can't think of a single conversation I have had with them about race. Sure, we talk about Japan and America and Japanese people and American people, but never about white people (or black people) as a race. In a mono-racial society, it just isn't something that is a constant issue. It's like we don't compare our sun to other suns, because there are no other suns to compare it to. We got our sun, and that's it. It's such a back-burner concept in Japan compared to places where many races are living together.

This is why the idea that if a Japanese woman uses a parasol to protect her skin means she wants "to be white" is so preposterous to me. Skin tone for Japanese in Japan has never been about race... Caucasian or African... as that is so far off the radar in the Japanese mind.

[Barone1551]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

LMAO that's a really funny reply. (Ugh, I have the feeling you're going to think I'm being sarcastic, but I'm not. It's hilars.)

No, I think the woman on top is ugly as fuck because she looks like a zombie. I have no idea where you found that picture, but it's really funny that you did. XD

Okay, anyway. Seriously? I agree with you. Beauty does go beyond race. I personally feel really attracted to a person's smile, far beyond the color of a person's skin. Now, I wish that everyone felt that way, but not everyone does. There are some people who look at skin color first and foremost. There are people who think that the person below is ugly because she has brown skin. Those people are racist. That's all I'm saying.

Ok I missed this post earlier, I will address it now. As I have said before I don't find it automatically racist if someone is not attracted to a certain skin tone. I will agree however that there are times when it can be attributed to racism, such as the story about your friend and her not liking white guys. Yes I can see that as racism, although I wouldn't take offense to it. There is a difference in my eyes between disliking a person for the color of their skin, and not being attracted to them. Everyone has the things they are attracted to, even if they cant put them onto a piece of paper. If you dislike a certain skin color because you then stereotype this person because of the color of their skin, this is racist. However, I think it is different if you are just not attracted to them. You may still be best of friends with someone who has a tone of skin that you may find less attractive. I'm just saying you may be attracted to certain things in a person, whether it be hair, facial features, ect.

Which brings me to this point. You stated earlier that you are more attracted to someones smile more than their skin. Which is fine, but you do indicate that you prefer some smiles over others. So you too have a defined set of characteristics you find attractive. If you don't have as nice of a smile as other people, you aren't attracted to them.
Now you say that you would pick the bottom pic because the top one is ugly. Now to me, someone as yourself who preaches being tolerant, you take a very intolerant stance. You have even said before it should matter the color of your skin (it shouldn't) it should matter whats inside. Shouldn't you not see attractiveness then. Shouldn't personality be the only thing that matters to you. Because obviously you don't prefer physical traits more than others... right?

and ill partially quote you on this, not to be a jerk. And I'm not trying to be sarcastic. But I will play devils advocate for a second, and this is tied to that picture of the white lady and the black lady, and then you response to the pic:

Why is her looks not good enough to be a partner? Does the completion of her skin indicate to you in some way that she less of a person, and so will have a child of less value? Does the look of her face suggest that her uterus doesn't work, and that she won't be able to carry a child? Why is attractiveness a better option for a partner? Does attractiveness somehow mean that the person is smarter, and so the child will be smarter? Is it just that no one really wants to have a child that will have to suffer in this biased world?

And finally I am interested in hearing your opinion on one of my earlier comments, the one about being sexist? Just when you have time of course, I just didn't want you to miss it. Thanks.

[Barone1551]

Originally Posted by MMM

The woman I knew felt she had no one to talk to, and in the end she broke from reality, so you are right. It does no good.

I don't know that I have found inner peace, and I am not saying your friends didn't experience true alienation, but I did meet a lot of people in Japan that were in the same situation that I was and saw things I couldn't see (Japanese people getting better service than non-Japanese at restaurants, for example). They called it racism, I called it paranoia.

Example after example was shown to me, and most of the time, I couldn't see it. ("See, he has 10 meatballs in his spaghetti, and I only have 9!" "We ordered before that table, but they got their food first!")

It is interesting talking about this here, as I had (and still have) dozens of Japanese friends in Japan, and I can't think of a single conversation I have had with them about race. Sure, we talk about Japan and America and Japanese people and American people, but never about white people (or black people) as a race. In a mono-racial society, it just isn't something that is a constant issue. It's like we don't compare our sun to other suns, because there are no other suns to compare it to. We got our sun, and that's it. It's such a back-burner concept in Japan compared to places where many races are living together.

This is why the idea that if a Japanese woman uses a parasol to protect her skin means she wants "to be white" is so preposterous to me. Skin tone for Japanese in Japan has never been about race... Caucasian or African... as that is so far off the radar in the Japanese mind.

Very nicely put. And I can vouch for the fact that the Japanese friends I have, we have never really talked about race how we are currently in this thread. They do see other countries and cultures i.e. America, and Japan. But never black and white.

Good post MMM

[Sukai]

I think one reason why many Japanese say they would like pale skin is because they see on the media Japanese people with pale skin (for example in anime, most characters will have very pale skin...not a diss I love anime btw) and so it can pressure them into thinking that pale skin is what they should have. This sort of pressure occurs all the time and all over the world in media, advertising and celeb culture. For example many of my friends who are interested the those sorts of things are, at the moment trying to get a tan. I have asked them why and they reply "I dunno, everyone else is getting one".....ox