Japanese Help Questions/Translations

[Harold]

I have a question regarding conversational Japanese.

What does it mean when someone doesn't use "complete" forms when saying only one thing?

For instance: 変人じゃなくて instead of 変人じゃない

This really bugs me because I don't know what the real difference is.

And also.. this is slang I see a lot, but why do people say "つまらん" instead of "つまらない"

Is it just like in English (this/dis) or something else?

[chibibecci]

Thanks

Originally Posted by SSJup81

Hello everyone. I keep getting explanations for this, vague ones, but I still don't fully understand it.

Can someone please give a very good way of explaining the particles に and で? I still have trouble determining when I would use either. Sometimes I've used に when I should have used で and vice-versa. The other particles, へ, が, を I have no problem with at all.

(Taken from Genki books)
The particle で indicates where the event described by the verb takes place.
図書館で 本を読みます。
I will read books in the library.

に has a few meanings though:
1.The goal toward which things move.
私は今日学校 に 行きません。
I will not go to school today.
2.The time of an event.
日曜日 に 京都に行きます。
I will go to Kyoto on Sunday.

I hope that helps a little

[enyafriend]

Originally Posted by Harold

I have a question regarding conversational Japanese.

What does it mean when someone doesn't use "complete" forms when saying only one thing?

For instance: 変人じゃなくて instead of 変人じゃない

This really bugs me because I don't know what the real difference is.

And also.. this is slang I see a lot, but why do people say "つまらん" instead of "つまらない"

Is it just like in English (this/dis) or something else?

Japanese is one language whereby in trying to be humble, modest, out of respect or not wanting to offend the listener, the speaker will sometimes end his speech abruptly or hanging in the air.

e.g.
行けば。。。(Ikeba...)
And the full sentence could be: You should go since you're not working tomorrow.

そうじゃなくて。。。(Sou janakute...)
And the full sentence could meant: It's not that, but actually I'm shy to speak to him.

買ってもいいけど。。。(kattemo ii kedo...)
And the full sentence could sound like: Buying that dog would not be a problem, it's just that I don't know how to take care of it.

Slang, or regional dialects, exist in Japan. What everybody is learning now is known as the standard Japanese. This form of Japanese is spoken mainly around Tokyo, or certain areas within the Kanto region. It's like in China, the standard chinese language is known as the Pudonghua.

e.g.
つまらない(standard Japanese), つまらん(Kansai dialect)
行かない[standard Japanese], 行かへん[Kansai dialect]

On a personal note, I don't know much about the Kansai ben, so I hope I got that right.

[Harold]

Originally Posted by enyafriend

Japanese is one language whereby in trying to be humble, modest, out of respect or not wanting to offend the listener, the speaker will sometimes end his speech abruptly or hanging in the air.

e.g.
行けば。。。(Ikeba...)
And the full sentence could be: You should go since you're not working tomorrow.

そうじゃなくて。。。(Sou janakute...)
And the full sentence could meant: It's not that, but actually I'm shy to speak to him.

買ってもいいけど。。。(kattemo ii kedo...)
And the full sentence could sound like: Buying that dog would not be a problem, it's just that I don't know how to take care of it.

Slang, or regional dialects, exist in Japan. What everybody is learning now is known as the standard Japanese. This form of Japanese is spoken mainly around Tokyo, or certain areas within the Kanto region. It's like in China, the standard chinese language is known as the Pudonghua.

e.g.
つまらない(standard Japanese), つまらん(Kansai dialect)
行かない[standard Japanese], 行かへん[Kansai dialect]

On a personal note, I don't know much about the Kansai ben, so I hope I got that right.

Thanks. Everytime I hear it, I'd always see someone stating their opinion or being submissive. That makes so much more sense now.

Ah, the Kansai ben thing. I didn't think it was kansai ben because I read somewhere about へん being their negative verb endings and nothing about ん. Thanks for the insight though. I'll definitely have a more in-depth look at kansai ben.

[anrakushi]

Originally Posted by Harold

Ah, the Kansai ben thing. I didn't think it was kansai ben because I read somewhere about へん being their negative verb endings and nothing about ん. Thanks for the insight though. I'll definitely have a more in-depth look at kansai ben.

some verbs you will here both ending used commonly. for example in kansai it is common to hear 分からへん AND 分からん instead of 分からない.

[82riceballs]

Just a small favour for those experienced in Japanese (i.e. MMM, anrakushi, enyafriend, etc)-
Can you guys please check the recent sentences in the vocab-sentence game and explain the errors and such? You don't necessarily have to play the game, just help us with our grammar, syntax, etc.

Thanks!

[enyafriend]

Originally Posted by 82riceballs

Just a small favour for those experienced in Japanese (i.e. MMM, anrakushi, enyafriend, etc)-
Can you guys please check the recent sentences in the vocab-sentence game and explain the errors and such? You don't necessarily have to play the game, just help us with our grammar, syntax, etc.

Thanks!

I know you have requested for this before, but still, I don't think it interest me to be there. I don't know about the others, but I felt that while it is a good place for learners, it is not a good place for teachers.

When you put up questions in Language Help thread, we can tailored our answers according to your level of understanding in the language. Not in a thread where there are various people with different understanding levels.
And certaintly not in a thread whereby people are posting one liners that they had picked up from somewhere like anime, manga books, song lyrics....and even right off from dictionaries. And sometimes, trying to pitch against one another in terms of difficulties.

I 've been there once or twice, and it looked to me like more of a contest between learners rather than a proper learning stage.

I'm sorry but, with all due respect, that is how I see things there.

[MMM]

I agree with enyafriend. 82riceballs, if you have a question (you always have good ones!) from the game, please feel free to post those questions here, and I am sure if one of us can help we will, but I don't want to bully the game.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by enyafriend

Japanese is one language whereby in trying to be humble, modest, out of respect or not wanting to offend the listener, the speaker will sometimes end his speech abruptly or hanging in the air.

e.g.
行けば。。。(Ikeba...)
And the full sentence could be: You should go since you're not working tomorrow.

そうじゃなくて。。。(Sou janakute...)
And the full sentence could meant: It's not that, but actually I'm shy to speak to him.

買ってもいいけど。。。(kattemo ii kedo...)
And the full sentence could sound like: Buying that dog would not be a problem, it's just that I don't know how to take care of it.

Slang, or regional dialects, exist in Japan. What everybody is learning now is known as the standard Japanese. This form of Japanese is spoken mainly around Tokyo, or certain areas within the Kanto region. It's like in China, the standard chinese language is known as the Pudonghua.

e.g.
つまらない(standard Japanese), つまらん(Kansai dialect)
行かない[standard Japanese], 行かへん[Kansai dialect]

On a personal note, I don't know much about the Kansai ben, so I hope I got that right.

I am not trying to confuse the issue, but every time someone has said 行けば to me, it meant "Why don't you go ... (and stop talking about it?)" kind of thing. My only comment on an otherwise perfect explanation...

[enyafriend]

Originally Posted by MMM

I am not trying to confuse the issue, but every time someone has said 行けば to me, it meant "Why don't you go ... (and stop talking about it?)" kind of thing. My only comment on an otherwise perfect explanation...

Thanks for your insight, MMM. Maybe I should explain myself more precisely.

When someone says e.g. 行けば... or any sentence that ends abruptly, they can have several different meanings to that. However, whatever that it may meant, the delicate meaning of the whole sentence can only be understood between the speaker and the listener. It may be something that they had done before together, spoke about or something that is of mutual interest to them.

One can says that as an encouragement,
e.g. Why don't you go, since you are good at it?

or sarcastically,
e.g. Go ahead and go, you're doomed for failure anyway.

or to throw a challenge,
e.g. You should go/Why don't you go and prove it to me!

or in frustration/fed-up mood,,
e.g. Why don't you go ... (and stop talking about it?)


It all depends......