The use of こと

[Sashimister]

Originally Posted by Caerula

And if I´ve understood it right, I can use the の at the end of the sentence for interrogation in the casual way, but か in the formal way, right?

Greetings to Tokyo!

Das ist korrekt. Danke.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by Caerula

Oh yes, this sounds very replicable. I get more and more enthusiastic about the japanese language. You can envisage a lot of questions in the future
And if I´ve understood it right, I can use the の at the end of the sentence for interrogation in the casual way, but か in the formal way, right?

Greetings to Tokyo!

Also (not to make things too complicated for you!) but in conversation, you might hear の used at the end of an imperative or declarative sentence.

母：牛乳を飲むの。 Drink your milk.
子：うん。 OK.

and

アパートにいるの。 I'm at my apartment.

[KyleGoetz]

Furthermore, I started throwing together brief notes about こと and の (forgive the romaji, but Word starts using constant ugly fonts if you do too much Japanese for some reason)

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz's awesome notes

Nominalization in Japanese
There are myriad nominalizing particles in Japanese
1. の
2. こと—thing, affair, matter, incident, fact
3. もの
4. ところ
5. よう
6. もよう
7. わけ
Prefatory notes
1. cleft sentence—
2. equational sentence—
3. complement clause—
の vs こと
1. cleft/equational sentences—S koto/no wa . . . S2 koto da [cannot use no]
2. complement clause
3. use no or koto
4. predicate is perception (miru,mieru,kiku, kanjiru), use no
5. verb is kiku in hearsay sense, use koto
6. generally, no is more concrete and koto is more abstract
7. はなこがピアノを引くのを聞いた。I heard Hanako play the piano.
8. はなこがピアノを引くことを聞いた。I heard Hanako plays the piano.
Special set phrases regarding koto
1. idiomatic expressions (~koto desu for advice)—kenkō ni naritakattara undou suru koto da—if you want to be healthy, you should exercise
2. ~koto ga dekiru
3. [past] koto ga aru (I have ~)
4. [nonpast] koto ga aru (possibility)
5. [nonpast] koto wa nai (no need)
6. ~ koto (impersonal orders)—koko de tabako wo suwanai koto—don’t smoke here
7. ~ to no koto da (hearsay)—kare wa kyou koko e konai to no koto desu—I heard he would not come today
8. ~koto [ni] wa (emphasis)—odoroita koto ni wa minna sono koto wo sitteita—to our surprise, everyone knew it
9. ~koto, donna ni/nante ~ koto ka (strong emotion)—wazuka 16sai de Wimbledon de yuushou suru nante, nante subarasii koto—still of the age of 16, she won a championship at wimbledon. How marvelous! // ま〜、かわいいあかちゃんだこと！My, what a cute baby!
Special phrases regarding no
1. emphasis—sakki kita no wa kare no otouto da—it was his brother who came recently
2. object clause of perception verb such as kiku, miru, kanjiru, etc.—tori ga naiteiru no ga kikoeru—I can hear the birds singing
3. object of verb such as to help, wait
4. purpose of use—kono kaban wa gaikoku ryokou ni iku no ni benri da—this backpack is convenient for foreign travel

[Caerula]

Wow, these a really a lot of particles. But I think, you have to go step by step I´ve copied your explanations in my grammar file. They will surely help me in my further studies.

Greetings!

[Sashimister]

Nevermind.

[Tsuwabuki]

So far, I think the primary use of こと one should focus on is the first one really mentioned, which is called 動名詞 in Japanese. I often hear sentences like あなたの主事を読むことができません, or "I cannot read your calligraphy." In English, as was mentioned, we usually add ing to make a verb into a noun, but as you see above, the translation may not always work out that way. A sentence that shows this pattern might be スケトをすることを楽しみます, or "I enjoy skating." In that case the こと really is serving the exact same function as the ing.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

So far, I think the primary use of こと one should focus on is the first one really mentioned, which is called 動名詞 in Japanese. I often hear sentences like あなたの主事を読むことができません, or "I cannot read your calligraphy." In English, as was mentioned, we usually add ing to make a verb into a noun, but as you see above, the translation may not always work out that way. A sentence that shows this pattern might be スケトをすることを楽しみます, or "I enjoy skating." In that case the こと really is serving the exact same function as the ing.

Yes, this is probably the most important. Additionally, in English we call this the "potential" form IIRC.

[Sashimister]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

So far, I think the primary use of こと one should focus on is the first one really mentioned, which is called 動名詞 in Japanese. I often hear sentences like あなたの主事を読むことができません, or "I cannot read your calligraphy." In English, as was mentioned, we usually add ing to make a verb into a noun, but as you see above, the translation may not always work out that way. A sentence that shows this pattern might be スケトをすることを楽しみます, or "I enjoy skating." In that case the こと really is serving the exact same function as the ing.

To make your post more persuasive:

1. 動名詞 is not a term used for Japanese grammar. It's a term created for the specific purpose of describing the -ing form of English verbs. The term is not even used for other Indo-European languages.

2. What is 主事? The word you would have wanted to use would be 習字. Check the important (for romaji-users) difference in pronunciation.

3. スケト　＞　スケート. Even with that correction, Japanese speakers still wouldn't say スケートをすることを楽しみます in any natural settings. (English classes aren't natural settings as we are forced to use "strange" Japanese for translation purposes, in case that's where you're coming from.) 「スケート」 alread has the meaning "skating" as well. We would just say スケートが好きです or　大好きです.　

[robhol]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

So far, I think the primary use of こと one should focus on is the first one really mentioned, which is called 動名詞 in Japanese. I often hear sentences like あなたの主事を読むことができません, or "I cannot read your calligraphy." In English, as was mentioned, we usually add ing to make a verb into a noun, but as you see above, the translation may not always work out that way. A sentence that shows this pattern might be スケトをすることを楽しみます, or "I enjoy skating." In that case the こと really is serving the exact same function as the ing.

あなた達の漢字を読むことができません.
But I suppose this topic has kinda been "hijacked" anyway. Treat 'er nicely; I'll just sit here and absorb knowledge.

*sits down with an attentive expression*

[Tsuwabuki]

1. 動名詞 is not a term used for Japanese grammar. It's a term created for the specific purpose of describing the -ing form of English verbs. The term is not even used for other Indo-European languages.

Well, yes, but robhol is using English, and as such I was explaining it in a way in which he could use it to ask for clarification from a Japanese speaker who is familiar with English parts of speech in Japanese.

2. What is 主事? The word you would have wanted to use would be 習字. Check the important (for romaji-users) difference in pronunciation.

Crap, didn't even catch that. This is why I shouldn't let my computer pick kanji for me without reading it over! I know what the kanji should have been. I just didn't bother to read over my post.

3. スケト　＞　スケート. Even with that correction, Japanese speakers still wouldn't say スケートをすることを楽しみます in any natural settings. (English classes aren't natural settings as we are forced to use "strange" Japanese for translation purposes, in case that's where you're coming from.) 「スケート」 alread has the meaning "skating" as well. We would just say スケートが好きです or　大好きです.　

Eh. Let's chalk up the lack of the dash to my forgetting to add it. Even if I double the え my system does not automatically create a dash, I have to manually add it.

As for the sentence example above, I have never used it nor heard it used. I was trying to use a sentence I constructed out of thin air to show how the parts of speech can work together. In this case just grammar, not style. You are certainly correct about the style, but in this case, that wouldn't have explained the すること usage in a way that could be equated with the English gerund, which is the most common usage I hear in daily life.

Feel free to clarify any mistakes I make, as they are going to be largely due to my failure to use my Japanese keyboard effectively. However, you will notice I don't ask questions of others; I am quite content with my own command of Japanese and find that I get enough practice without using it here!