Study Tips?

[Applestar]

Ohh, that's true! I've actually watched quite a bit of Japanese Dramas and Movies. So when I look through Genki, I find that I am familiar with many of the phrases and words.. but certainly not enough to understand the shows without subtitles (quite yet). It's like learning how to ride a bike? (: Training wheels with English subtitles and gradually moving away from it!

Are there any Grammar books you would like to recommend i.e. the yellow book you had mentioned earlier, whom is it by? I've noticed the sentence structure in Japanese is very similar to Korean; many of the words "sound similar too (not exact, but just the slight gist of it). I don't think grammar for me will be hard to learn! I'm just worried that I would sound too 'textbook-like'.

For instance, for English Learners:
A: How are you?
B: I'm fine, thank you. And you?

I want to learn conversational Japanese language, so it wouldn't sound so awkward or unnatural when I'm speaking to native speakers for instance. (I'm guessing this is why your abroad japanese students found amusing xD)

Oddly enough, I'm not majoring in Japanese. I'm a proposed Biology major, and aspiring to get into Dental School. However, I would like to become fluent in Japanese and Spanish by the time I graduate undergraduate school!

[Kai13]

Hm, does any of you know "word lists"?

Write a short list of 5-7 words in your target language (in this case, japanese), then read the wrods until you are confident you know the tranlation. Write a second list with the translation of the words, read through it till you're confident that you know the original words. Reread the original words. In the end rewrite the japanese words again.

This is great and the words will be in your short term memory, to solidify the knowlegde review them on a daily basis or whenever you think you should review them. Oh, I personally put the words in sentences wuth grammar I understand and review them on anki.

Other than that, I'm currently on genki's 21st lesson, after that I'll use minna no nihongo 2 (finished number one a few months ago) so that I can learn a few grammar points that genki doesn't cover.

I recomment Heisig remembering the kanji in order to remember how to WRITE with ease the kanji. That's hat I did and then started learning japanese with tons of kanji due to easiness in writing them.

[Applestar]

ありがと　ございます。

Thanks for sharing! I'll try the Word-Lists method and see if Anki would work better than Smart.FM!

EDIT: Just out of curiousity, does Heisig's Remembering the Kanji (4th Edition) introduce First Grade Kanji and onward? Or is it randomly ordered?

[yuriyuri]

Originally Posted by Applestar

Just out of curiousity, does Heisig's Remembering the Kanji (4th Edition) introduce First Grade Kanji and onward? Or is it randomly ordered?

It is ordered in a way that is specific to how he builds up the Kanji throughout the book.
It doesn't go by any standardized grades.
Also, if you want to learn to read Kanji - Don't use RTK, because it won't teach you how to read.
You will only learn how to write Kanji from it - nothing more, nothing less.

[Applestar]

Ohh, I see. Thanks again, Yuriyuri. ^^

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by Applestar

ありがと　ございます。

Thanks for sharing! I'll try the Word-Lists method and see if Anki would work better than Smart.FM!

EDIT: Just out of curiousity, does Heisig's Remembering the Kanji (4th Edition) introduce First Grade Kanji and onward? Or is it randomly ordered?

Just buy Kanji in Context used off of Amazon. It's the single best kanji book out there for a learner. Designed by a cadre of Japanese language professors in Japan, including the current director of one of the best Japanese programs in the nation for non-natives (RJ at 桜美林大学 in Tokyo (I refuse to use the new English name for the uni)).

[steven]

Umm, I've never actually thought of the process of using subtitles to not using subtitles a transition like training wheels/no training wheels.

For me, it was more like a decision that I just didn't want to use subtitles any more because I found it wasn't helping. So in that sense, using subtitles would be like sitting in one of those cars that bikes can tow that are made for little kids.

To describe it a little more straight- I personally think that hearing 100% and understanding 100% of everything in a television show is a very uncommon thing (I'm talking about even in your native langauge).

The thing is, you've heard the language enough to fill in the blanks (something that your brain does for you most of the time). If you study about eyes, you will discover a similar thing (we all have certain blind spots that the brain basically fills in for us).

I've never seen any reasons for why or how we can fill in these gaps (aurally speaking), but I have my own ideas. I think it has a lot to do with understanding the rhythm and intonation of the language. You can discern a lot of information by the cadence of a sentence. I think it also has to do with certain phrases being used extremely often in spoken language. Certain phrases are idiosyncratic to certain languages... a lot of these phrases aren't written so it's hard to study them in books and are something that you just have to hear over and over to pick up. Lastly, context is huge. You can make a lot of assumptions based on context alone. Before someone even opens their mouth, we often know what they're gonna say. Certain people say certain things, so I think that is why we can often finish close friends' sentences.

So it is my opinion that using subtitles will occupy certain functions of your brain that might be better used to just observe and absorb. You don't have to know every single thing that is going on in a television show. Even if you know the language perfectly, there may be a lot of cultural/pop culture references going on. I can remember quite well being in preschool and even in early elementary school and not understanding a good portion of what was being said in movies.

When people study a language they have too much pressure to try to understand all the fine details of everything. Sometimes you just have to smile and pretend you know what's going on as to not disrupt things. Being adults puts us at a disadvantage because we often can't go through that stage of "what's this" "what's that" that 3-4 year old kids have.

And if you can speak Korean, then I think you may be right about the grammar thing. I've heard the languages are extremely similar in that regard. However, I would watch out for "false friends" (which I think could exist grammatically speaking as well). It might be a mistake to take Korean phrases and apply them to the same/similar situations in Japanese. I suspect you could get by a lot of the time, but you'd probably end up with a very discernable Korean-ness to your Japanese. It's often said that Korean people do just fine blending in linguistically speaking in Japan, but there are a lot of cultural things that give them away. With that in mind, you might consider reading up on the culture as a study-supplement. I know the two cultures are similar, but really reading up on the nuances of Japanese language-culture is super important (probably more-so for European/American/Australian born people though).

[Applestar]

I find myself reading the subtitles instead of actually listening to the language itself-- but without them, I don't understand much of anything. Would you still recommend it? I mean, apart from random phrases that are frequently used in T.V. Dramas and Animes, I understand virtually nothing since I haven't really studied a lot of Japanese vocabulary.

I found out that we're using Genki I for all 3 Japanese beginning courses: Japanese 1, 2, and 3. For Japanese 1, we are covering just 5 chapters from Genki and about 43 Kanji. I don't know if I can fit more Japanese courses into my college schedule without it interfering with my Pre-Reqs for Biology Major so I'm guessing after the first quarter of instruction, it will be self-study (unless I want to minor in East Asian Studies or something).

I'll keep "False friends" in mind though! I hadn't thought of that. Thank you ^_^

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by Applestar

Ohh, that's true! I've actually watched quite a bit of Japanese Dramas and Movies. So when I look through Genki, I find that I am familiar with many of the phrases and words.. but certainly not enough to understand the shows without subtitles (quite yet). It's like learning how to ride a bike? (: Training wheels with English subtitles and gradually moving away from it!

Are there any Grammar books you would like to recommend i.e. the yellow book you had mentioned earlier, whom is it by? I've noticed the sentence structure in Japanese is very similar to Korean; many of the words "sound similar too (not exact, but just the slight gist of it). I don't think grammar for me will be hard to learn! I'm just worried that I would sound too 'textbook-like'.

For instance, for English Learners:
A: How are you?
B: I'm fine, thank you. And you?

I want to learn conversational Japanese language, so it wouldn't sound so awkward or unnatural when I'm speaking to native speakers for instance. (I'm guessing this is why your abroad japanese students found amusing xD)

Oddly enough, I'm not majoring in Japanese. I'm a proposed Biology major, and aspiring to get into Dental School. However, I would like to become fluent in Japanese and Spanish by the time I graduate undergraduate school!

You cannot possibly become fluent in Japanese in four years while in the US. It is impossible.

Spanish is doable, though.

[steven]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

You cannot possibly become fluent in Japanese in four years while in the US. It is impossible.

Spanish is doable, though.

I'm going to agree that Spanish would be way easier to pull off... but I beleive Japanese can be done. It really depends on where you live and your ability/willingness to meet people who are Japanese and actually get to know them. It also depends on your definition of "fluent"... I think that a very decent conversational level of Japanese can be acquired while in the US if you really busted your ass for 4 years.

I agree with your notion though... if you really wanna see improvements in your Japanese, then come to Japan. Again though, that too will depend on your ability to mingle with actual Japanese instead of hanging out at foreigner bars nad the like all the time.

Setting a time table on your language learning is unrealistic though... I think people all have the ability to become fluent in a second language. It's just that it takes people different times to get past that "hump" that usually seems to come in Japanese as a second langauge acquisition after about 2 years of college level learning. I would never believe any of that "you'll be able to pass JLPT X level after taking these courses" style of approach. If you remembered virtually everything provided in the course you probably have a chance, but that's simply an unrealistic proposal. There's always that like 3-5% who can really get a handle on a second language quickly (I'm sure it depends on the langauge too). Just don't expect that 3-5% to be you and approach your language learning with an understanding that you will be in it for the long haul. Otherwise you might just become one of those "dissapointed in Japan" people who give up after a few years.