始める or 始まる

[BabyAzerty]

Hi there !


So when to use which one ?

It both means to begin, start right ?

But then, what is the difference between both ?

(Examples with sentences are welcome ^^)

[m4x30000]

Advanced Japanese I: Transitive? Intransitive? Confusing? Yes.

This might be helpful... In short it's transitive vs intransitive.

Here is an exemple I found :

I will start the class = Watashi wa kurasu o hajimemasu
-> Here it's 始める since you took the action to start the class (transitive)
The class will start = kurasu ga hajimarimasu
-> Here it's 始まる since no one took the action to start the class, the class just "starts", so it's intransitive.

The link I gave you should clarify the difference between in/transitive...

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by BabyAzerty

Hi there !


So when to use which one ?

It both means to begin, start right ?

But then, what is the difference between both ?

(Examples with sentences are welcome ^^)

始める is transitive (an actor will start something else)
始まる is intransitive (the event/action will start)

The teacher started class.
先生が授業を始めた。
The class started.
授業が始まった。

[Sashimister]

Originally Posted by m4x30000

Advanced Japanese I: Transitive? Intransitive? Confusing? Yes.

TBH, I'm not least convinced that the author of this really knows much Japanese. Teaching students the difference between Japanese transitive and intransitive verbs without even explaining the particles they each take is just a huge fault in itself.

And it's definitely NOT advanced Japanese as s/he says!

Originally Posted by BabyAzerty

So when to use which one ?

It both means to begin, start right ?

But then, what is the difference between both ?

(Examples with sentences are welcome ^^)

Intransitive (A thing is the subject.):
Something + が/は + 始まる. = Something starts.

Transitive (A person is the subject.):
Someone + が/は + something + を　+ 始める. = Someone starts something.　
*Needless to say, the person subject is often hidden.

Example sentences. (You try and translate.)
１.　私は１０歳の時柔道（じゅうどう）を始めた。
２.　映画（えいが）は５分前に始まった。
3.　では授業（じゅぎょう）を始めます。
4.　大学でドイツ語を始めたいと思います。
５.　君に会った瞬間（しゅんかん）に恋は始まった。
6.　まだ日本語を始めたばかりです。

[BabyAzerty]

Thanks to all of you !!!

Now, I know the difference !
Thanks a lot, really !


@ m4x30000 : You used kurasu for class. And yesterday, I listened to some StereoPony and heard the term buko. (I believe the kanji would be : 部子)
So I have a new question : Which one to use in everydays life ?


@ Sashimister : I love your examples. Trying to translate them ^^
And here is what I answered :

1/ I started judo at the age of 10.
2/ The movie started 5 minutes ago.
3/ Well then, class starts.
4/ I think that German started in University. (What does いと mean ?)
5/ Hmmm ... I have some trouble translating it correctly. "Love started when I met you"
6/ ??? Lol, I kind of understand but I can't translate it at all. "I kind of started Japanese" ...

Help ^^

[Sashimister]

Originally Posted by BabyAzerty

@ Sashimister : I love your examples. Trying to translate them ^^
And here is what I answered :

1/ I started judo at the age of 10.
2/ The movie started 5 minutes ago.
3/ Well then, class starts.
4/ I think that German started in University. (What does いと mean ?)
5/ Hmmm ... I have some trouble translating it correctly. "Love started when I met you"
6/ ??? Lol, I kind of understand but I can't translate it at all. "I kind of started Japanese" ...

My own translations will be literal. Notice I used を every time I used the transitive form 始める.

1. trans. I started judo when I was 10.
2. intrans. The movie started 5 minutes ago.
3. trans. Now (I am) starting the class.
4. trans. I'm thinking of starting (studying) German in college.
5. intrans. The moment I met you, love started.
6. trans. I have just started (studying) Japanese.

[BabyAzerty]

Thanks for the translations.

It really helps me a lot !


But, the sentence 6. still bothers me ... I mean, I don't see anywhere the notion of " まだ "　or " ばかり " in your englih translation.
Or maybe, it is used as some kind of phrase ?

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by BabyAzerty

Thanks for the translations.

It really helps me a lot !


But, the sentence 6. still bothers me ... I mean, I don't see anywhere the notion of " まだ "　or " ばかり " in your englih translation.
Or maybe, it is used as some kind of phrase ?

(Vた)ばかり = "just did something"
すしを食べたばかりだ I have just eaten some sushi.
インセプションを見たばかりだ I have just watched Inception.
etc.

Without ばかり, you should have
I ate sushi [at some point before now—it could have been 27 years ago, depending on what we're talking about right now].
I watched Inception [at some point before now].


And the まだ at the beginning, I think, carries the slight emphasis on how the speaker has just started studying, so he is not yet any good.

[Sashimister]

Originally Posted by BabyAzerty

　
But, the sentence 6. still bothers me ... I mean, I don't see anywhere the notion of " まだ "　or " ばかり " in your englih translation.
Or maybe, it is used as some kind of phrase ?

まだ日本語を始めたばかりです。

I have just started (studying) Japanese.
　
"to have just ~~" =　（まだ）～～したばかりです

まだ is optional as far as grammar, but native speakers would usually add it when using ばかり for extra emphasis on the fact that there has not been a long time since something happened.

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by BabyAzerty

4/ I think that German started in University. (What does いと mean ?)

In this one, you're breaking up the sentence in the wrong place. I'll put spaces in to show you how it should be:
4.　大学 で ドイツ語 を 始めたい と 思います

the と particle here links 思います with 始めたい. [と 思います] really means, "i think". と is used a lot with verbs of expression like 'feel', and 'say' and 'think'.

with 始めたい the たい ending expresses want or desire. ie; 何かを食べたい is " I want to eat something" 宇宙に行きたい is "i want to go to space".

So, literally ドイツ語を始めたいと思います is "I'm thinking that I want to start german", but the "I want" doesn't always need to be translated literally (besides, 'I'm thinking I want' sounds odd in English!), so it tends to come out as simply "I'm thinking of~".

Sashimister can probably explain (6) better, but yes, まだ〜ばかり is a phrase. I guess if you want it literally, it's like saying "I've already done such and such, but only just", which is pretty long-winded and redundant in English, so it's better to translate as "I have just~"