I used both genki's and both Minna no nihongo. I liked Genki series the most. It has better explanations, mnn has a few more grammar points than genki, but even so I like genki the most.

I'm gonna review the keigo lessons and then will move on to an integrated approach to intermediate japanese.


Btw, do you know of any good resources for keigo (textbooks, links...?)
Thanks!

thanks very much for the feedback ^__^ just ordered online so looking forward to learning XD HEE HEE

Oh man...

Well, I apologize for my late message.

I used Genki in college and started on "genki II". While it was better than "Adventures in Japan", I still don't like it. I haven't looked at my book in years, and I can't reference it now as it's sitting in a closet thousands of miles away.

To put a long story short any Japanese I've ever showed Genki to has laughed when they saw it. Wings to Discovery is right, there is a problem with keigo. If I remember correctly, there were "scenes" in the book where friends were talking with each other with です/ます, which is something that doesn't really happen. I think there was even a part where a couple talks to each other all formally like that. The word choices in the book were also strange if I remember. Anyways, I distinctly remember my BS Alarm going off every time I opened that book (as well as Adventures in Japan).

The last textbook I bought was "yokoso". My teacher suggested it (I think she's one of the writers or knows one of the writers or something like that). It seemed better, but to be honest I didn't get too far before I just gave up on textbooks.

If you're looking for a "supplement" to Genki, get "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar" as it will help explain some of the more vague explanations in textbooks. You might also look into different communication books that talk about English Speakers (I have books that are from the points of view of Americans in particular) and Japanese speakers.

The bottom line is that Genki alone will not cut it. I think that most textbooks alone won't cut it though. Anyways, good luck with your studies!

Japanese don't "laugh" at the genki books and if they did it would be because of the cheesy stories in them but that's about it.

I've shown my books to some Japanese friends when I was still using them and nobody "laughed".

In fact some of them said it was quite good for begginers and they were the required texts in my university.

I'm now studying for Nikyu (Level 2) and planning to take Ikkyu (Level 1) on the JPLT in 2012 and I started Japanese only 3 and a half years ago so if you want a good reference from the genki series you can take it from me.

There is no problem with keigo. There is a scene where 2 friends talk to each other in masu form but that's in line with the books. Quite frankly.. If you speak to a Japanese person in casual form then they are going to assume a certain level of fluency that people at that level don't have and can easily mess up.

Starting with the masu form is necessary.

like I said before I will be using other sources for my learning ^__^ its just good to know that im learnin a formal way, I'd have to learn it sometime so may aswell start now haha plus im getting the genki book to help me understand writing aswell

but yea im going to be buying other books aswell in due time and ill make sure these are less formal approachs xD just looking forward to learning

Thanks for instilling a bit more coffidence in my purchase haha :D I plan on learning as much as possible from the genki 1 book, just wondering if you've bought the 2nd one? and maybe a possible buy list for some books after I get through genki? ^___^

I guess we spoke to different people about the book then! I'm not talking about just one person or just one case.

Starting in the masu-form might certainly be a good idea, but showing a wrong example of its usage isn't helping anyone in my opinion. My problem with these kinds of textbooks is that they are geared at a kind of "quick" learning style that prepares people for tests. How well it does that, I wouldn't know because I've never taken a JLPT test. If you are into that kind of thing (and I take it a lot of people are as it can get you a job), then that's fine.
The Genki books were required at my college, too. The teachers there felt that the book didn't cut the mustard (although it does seem to work for some people) so they switched to another book (not that I can vouch for the new book they are using eiher though).

If you want some insight, read the reviews on amazon. It overwhelmingly has positive reviews. Unfortunately, a lot of those positive reviews read like ebay feedback. Not only that, you can tell a lot of other people reviewed the product right after it arrived. There are, however a number of genuinely good reviews (about 10-15). There are some really bad reviews, too (about 5 or so). There are some people who give good ratings but have rather backhanded compliments in their reviews. Likewise, some of the bad reviews do go over the good parts of the book. I think if you read the reviews you'll know what to expect. If you are aware of its shortcomings, then I think you can get some good use out of it. Don't expect to get by with just the genki series alone, though.

As far as a list of books to get with/after Genki, here's a short list of books that I've read that were decent: (you can get them for dirt cheap on amazon)

Communicative Styles of Japanese and Americans (Barnlund)
Beyond Words: How to Walk and Talk like a Japanese (Hovart)
Doing Business with Japanese Men: A Woman's Handbook (Brannen & Wilen)
Second Language Learning: Contrastive Analysis, Error Analysis, and Related Aspects (Robinette & Schachter)
An Introduction to Japanese Grammar and Communication Strategies (Maynard) [note: I personally didn't find this book very useful, but a lot of people around me did... I think it's hit or miss]

A few notes on these books: Some of them are a bit dated and it shows. Even though they are pretty old, a lot of their subject matter is still really relavant. The "Second Language Learning" book is pretty technical and doesn't have much to do with Japanese specifically. It has a lot of old essays and work on a lot of different languages. Some of the stuff in there has "research" (statistical data) that I find to be very hard to draw conclusions from. It certainly helped me to become aware of a lot of the stuff they are talking about though. "Doing Business..." is a fun book. Don't let the title throw you, it is helpful for anyone learning Japanese and not just women who are interested in "Doing Business with Japanese Men". It has a lot of insight on the culture and also on different ways on how to handle certain situations that you may very well find yourself in (or different ways on how NOT to handle those situations). The truth about these kinds of books is, though, that they are pretty boring (with "Doing Business..." aside). They aren't the kinds of books you want to read cover to cover. Reading chunks at a time from these kinds of books will help you learn Japanese though. They also prove to be semi-decent reference material.

ahh thanks very much ^__^ I'll be sure to check them out, can never go wrong with learning too much.

Just try not to learn too much at once or you can burn out. Having a lot of resources is good. I think it helps to kinda take it all in a little at a time. Maybe read 10 pages of one book one day (or a chapter/section) and move on to another on another day. When you're bored you can go for bigger chunks. The stuff that's in those "supplementary" books is stuff that I think would be good to keep in the back of your mind while you are studying.

While I'm sure some people disagree, I find the Genki book to be a little bit strange for adult learners in that the subject matter is a little bit adolescent. The vocabulary choices are also a bit strange. Some of the grammar is really well presented (particularly the charts that they have), but the explanation is lacking (this is where A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar comes into play). Understanding the culture is an integral part in understanding Japanese. I think it's unfair to say that a textbook should include things about this in great detail... so I shouldn't knock Genki for its lacking in this area. Fortunately you can find books on this subject on Amazon for literally under a dollar (plus S&H of course).

There was another book I encountered in college as well... it was kind of old (out of print). They had a few copies on Amazon going for astronomical prices (over a hundo). It had REALLY good explanations of grammar in it. If I can ever find out what it is I'll try to post it. I don't know about getting your hands on your own copy, but it might be at a college library or other library nearby.

...you shouldn't publish everywhere wiki links. there is a reason why universities have banned using wiki references in any papers.