vocabulary

[ShinJon]

Alright, thanks a lot sir! I appreciate it!
Arigato

I hope I said it right in japanese.

Last thing, Kanji in context is not in Anki after I removed it by accident for some reasons I do not know. IF you know why let me know so i can fix the problem.

[KyleGoetz]

What? Kanji in Context is a book. You have to buy the book.

[steven]

I think that MMM's important post was overlooked by some people in this topic.

It all depends on what your goal is in learning Japanese. If you want to learn how to read and write Japanese, your method should be a lot different than listening and speaking.

I think it also depends on what level of Japanese you are on at the moment. There'd be no point in learning kanji or a bunch of words when you can barely put a sentence together.

One more thing-- and this is what I beleive. I think that as a learner you can't ignore one or the other. Eventually you will have to face reading/writing or listening/speaking. Practicing reading and writing will help solidify what you do know as well as provide a source for more complex material (as not many people go into hard topics in everyday conversation). Practicing listening/speaking helps you communicate, which provides a good source for... inspiration I guess. Above that, listening is a big source for massive amounts of input. To get that kind of input by reading alone would be quite a feat. However, the input is markedly different.

In otherwords, before making too many investments, you migth want to consider your position.

For example, when I was studying Japanese at the beginning of college, I thought about getting an Electric dictionary because I knew I would eventually need one. I held out until I would absolutely need one, and by then a piece of software came out for the DS that was basically what a good electronic dictionary at the time was (maybe fewer vocabulary, but since it was the DS, you could write with it). Instead of paying $500, I paid $50.

[fogas]

Originally Posted by steven

I think that MMM's important post was overlooked by some people in this topic.

It all depends on what your goal is in learning Japanese. If you want to learn how to read and write Japanese, your method should be a lot different than listening and speaking.

I think it also depends on what level of Japanese you are on at the moment. There'd be no point in learning kanji or a bunch of words when you can barely put a sentence together.

One more thing-- and this is what I beleive. I think that as a learner you can't ignore one or the other. Eventually you will have to face reading/writing or listening/speaking. Practicing reading and writing will help solidify what you do know as well as provide a source for more complex material (as not many people go into hard topics in everyday conversation). Practicing listening/speaking helps you communicate, which provides a good source for... inspiration I guess. Above that, listening is a big source for massive amounts of input. To get that kind of input by reading alone would be quite a feat. However, the input is markedly different.

In otherwords, before making too many investments, you migth want to consider your position.

For example, when I was studying Japanese at the beginning of college, I thought about getting an Electric dictionary because I knew I would eventually need one. I held out until I would absolutely need one, and by then a piece of software came out for the DS that was basically what a good electronic dictionary at the time was (maybe fewer vocabulary, but since it was the DS, you could write with it). Instead of paying $500, I paid $50.

You are saying the good things, but HOW can you learn to speak correct japanese, if you don't even have japanese natives that you know?

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by fogas

You are saying the good things, but HOW can you learn to speak correct japanese, if you don't even have japanese natives that you know?

That was absolutely not your question in OP. You just asked about increasing vocab.

[steven]

Well if you don't know any Japanese people, I think it is definitely harder to accomplish. I don't think I would have ever gotten to the point that I am without the help of many native speakers.

As far as the original post goes I believe, at least for me, that learning aurally with a lot of repitition and context I am able to better remember and internalize words. Just studying words one at a time is extremely inaffective in my own experience. By doing so I have no idea of how Japanese people use those words... so I sometimes use them as I would in English or I sometimes use them as I think a Japanese speaker would... sometimes that works, but sometimes it doesn't.

Again though, it depends on what you want to do with Japanese. If you want to read and write it, then you can study the written language... even still I'm in the camp that believes a good helping of listening/speaker helps a lot before you try to tackle the written language.

This is something that lingustics people seem to argue about though. There are many methods to learning a language, and while I believe certain methods are better than others what it comes down to is what you are willing to do as a learner. In otherwords, you need to do whatever you can do to stay motivated while still challenging yourself with new stuff. It also has to do with your circumstances. If you don't have any native Japanese speakers around, then that does make things difficult. I can suggest Skype as a good tool. You can talk to a lot of Japanese people on there. It's a good way to test out new vocabulary. You can test reactions and hopefully get reactions.

I think good language exchange includes a kind of mother-child exchange. When the child produces output, the mother kind of repeats it in a way that gives confirmation. It reinforces correct usage and corrects mistakes. For example, a child might say something like "look mommy, there is doggies outside!" to which the mom might reply: "yea, there are doggies outisde, aren't there!". I'm sure you can think of a better example, but I hope you get what I am saying. These kinds of interactions are so important. Sometimes it might take a few times to catch on, and other times it might be realized immediately. That realization creates a sense of embarassment and becomes a memory. There are a plethera of words I remembered that way...

Flash cards are good for short term memory especially before tests (for me, that is... not that I have to take tests any more), but as far as long term memory goes, I am lucky to retain even a small fraction. I'm certain some people have better luck with flash cards though. I definitely wouldn't discourage it either, as it is just another excercise that will contribute to memorizing words. There is something unique to Japanese that makes flash cards good as well-- the way the kanji works. I remember I had a Japanese teacher (who wasn't Japanese) who always used to mistake 恐竜 (きょうりゅう）and 給料　（きゅうりょう）... if you know the kanji, then you would never mistake them. Just knowing that りゅう means dragon, it would be hard to mix the words up. This is where reading really comes into play when speaking Japanese.

With that in mind, knowing kanji is a good way to increase your vocab. Studying words by their kanji will increase your kanji knowledge which will allow you to understand more and more what words mean that you've never heard before when they are said to you... and of course it will help you recognize more and more written words even if you don't know how to pronounce them!

fogas, why do you want to learn Japanese? What are your goals? What's your incentive?

[fogas]

Originally Posted by steven

Well if you don't know any Japanese people, I think it is definitely harder to accomplish. I don't think I would have ever gotten to the point that I am without the help of many native speakers.

As far as the original post goes I believe, at least for me, that learning aurally with a lot of repitition and context I am able to better remember and internalize words. Just studying words one at a time is extremely inaffective in my own experience. By doing so I have no idea of how Japanese people use those words... so I sometimes use them as I would in English or I sometimes use them as I think a Japanese speaker would... sometimes that works, but sometimes it doesn't.

Again though, it depends on what you want to do with Japanese. If you want to read and write it, then you can study the written language... even still I'm in the camp that believes a good helping of listening/speaker helps a lot before you try to tackle the written language.

This is something that lingustics people seem to argue about though. There are many methods to learning a language, and while I believe certain methods are better than others what it comes down to is what you are willing to do as a learner. In otherwords, you need to do whatever you can do to stay motivated while still challenging yourself with new stuff. It also has to do with your circumstances. If you don't have any native Japanese speakers around, then that does make things difficult. I can suggest Skype as a good tool. You can talk to a lot of Japanese people on there. It's a good way to test out new vocabulary. You can test reactions and hopefully get reactions.

I think good language exchange includes a kind of mother-child exchange. When the child produces output, the mother kind of repeats it in a way that gives confirmation. It reinforces correct usage and corrects mistakes. For example, a child might say something like "look mommy, there is doggies outside!" to which the mom might reply: "yea, there are doggies outisde, aren't there!". I'm sure you can think of a better example, but I hope you get what I am saying. These kinds of interactions are so important. Sometimes it might take a few times to catch on, and other times it might be realized immediately. That realization creates a sense of embarassment and becomes a memory. There are a plethera of words I remembered that way...

Flash cards are good for short term memory especially before tests (for me, that is... not that I have to take tests any more), but as far as long term memory goes, I am lucky to retain even a small fraction. I'm certain some people have better luck with flash cards though. I definitely wouldn't discourage it either, as it is just another excercise that will contribute to memorizing words. There is something unique to Japanese that makes flash cards good as well-- the way the kanji works. I remember I had a Japanese teacher (who wasn't Japanese) who always used to mistake 恐竜 (きょうりゅう）and 給料　（きゅうりょう）... if you know the kanji, then you would never mistake them. Just knowing that りゅう means dragon, it would be hard to mix the words up. This is where reading really comes into play when speaking Japanese.

With that in mind, knowing kanji is a good way to increase your vocab. Studying words by their kanji will increase your kanji knowledge which will allow you to understand more and more what words mean that you've never heard before when they are said to you... and of course it will help you recognize more and more written words even if you don't know how to pronounce them!

fogas, why do you want to learn Japanese? What are your goals? What's your incentive?

Thank you for your huge post)) Answering to your question could be a little difficult, because I've never really asked myself that question. But you must not think that I'm not serious about the learning. One could say it's a question of a pride. I don't want to stop until I'm am done. And I'm really passionate about the japanese language, as I like it's very interesting. I think it's really fun learning it too. It's probably the only thing that keeps me on my way. I don't even know what I'm gonna use this language for, but... It is the only thing I am burning for xD