JapanForum.com  


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
(#1 (permalink))
Old
chryuop's Avatar
chryuop (Offline)
JF Old Timer
 
Posts: 704
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Oklahoma, USA
I've just... - 12-05-2010, 11:04 PM

日本に来たばかり。。。日本に来たところだ
According to my books, both form are used to convey the idea of something just happened. Is there a difference or they are synonimous?


降り注ぐ雨 マジで冷てぇ
暗闇の中 歩くしかねぇ
everything’s gonna be okay 恐れることねぇ
辛い時こそ胸を張れ
Reply With Quote
(#2 (permalink))
Old
KyleGoetz's Avatar
KyleGoetz (Offline)
Attorney at Flaw
 
Posts: 2,965
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Texas
12-05-2010, 11:39 PM

There's a difference (or, rather, a couple).

http://nihongo-online.jp/tree02/tree...ako=1&log=6752 explains it well, along with the follow up posts.

I. Short time span: difference
たばかり is a shorter time span that has passed than たところ. For example, 駅に着いたばかりだ is a bit like "I just arrived at the station [and am literally walking around carrying my bags having just gotten off the train]." 駅に着いたところだ could be more like you've just arrived, have found a place to sit, and have gotten out your map to plan where to go from there.

A response to the link above has explained this difference as:
ばかり:*gets off train* I just arrived!
ところ:*gets off train* I just arrived, *wonders what to do next* (次には...)

A little more time for thought/reflection has passed for ところ than ばかり.

II. Long time span: Speaker's feeling
Furthermore, たばかり can have had a lot longer time pass so long as it still feels like a short period of time to the speaker. (kind of related to the lack of ability to reflect, as mentioned in part I above)

For example, if you just got married six months ago, and you're amazed at how fast time is going, 六ヶ月に結婚したばかりなので、まだ新婚者だ is possible. Using ところ there would be wrong.

On a side note, it's amazing how easy it is to easily get grammar questions answered via Google now that I can read upwards of 1500 kanji!

Last edited by KyleGoetz : 12-05-2010 at 11:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
(#3 (permalink))
Old
masaegu's Avatar
masaegu (Offline)
永遠の愛
 
Posts: 2,573
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Central Tokyo
12-06-2010, 03:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chryuop View Post
日本に来たばかり。。。日本に来たところだ
According to my books, both form are used to convey the idea of something just happened. Is there a difference or they are synonimous?
1.日本に来たばかりだ
2.日本に来たところだ

There is a difference. Saying #2 can be totally inappropriate depending the situation.

The key factor from the native speaker's perspective is this: "How long is your intended stay?"

If it's a week, you can say either one during the first day or two. Here, the difference is minimal to non-existent. The two expressions are interchangeable. However, on Day 3 or 4, neither one would sound proper.

If it's a year, while #2 can only be said during the first few days, #1 can be said for as long as a few weeks from your arrival.

To answer your original question, the two are pretty much synonymous but not always interchangeable.
Reply With Quote
(#4 (permalink))
Old
KyleGoetz's Avatar
KyleGoetz (Offline)
Attorney at Flaw
 
Posts: 2,965
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Texas
12-06-2010, 06:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by masaegu View Post
1.日本に来たばかりだ
2.日本に来たところだ

There is a difference. Saying #2 can be totally inappropriate depending the situation.

The key factor from the native speaker's perspective is this: "How long is your intended stay?"

If it's a week, you can say either one during the first day or two. Here, the difference is minimal to non-existent. The two expressions are interchangeable. However, on Day 3 or 4, neither one would sound proper.

If it's a year, while #2 can only be said during the first few days, #1 can be said for as long as a few weeks from your arrival.

To answer your original question, the two are pretty much synonymous but not always interchangeable.
Thanks. That comports with what I said above, and makes me feel more confident in my guessplanation.
Reply With Quote
(#5 (permalink))
Old
chryuop's Avatar
chryuop (Offline)
JF Old Timer
 
Posts: 704
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Oklahoma, USA
12-06-2010, 01:19 PM

Thank you very much. So, by what I understood the difference is only in presence of long period of times. While if I am in front of situation like "I just called him...", "I have just come back home...", "I have just eaten..." it doesn't make a real big difference on which 1 I use. Then I guess it is up to a native speaker to hear what sounds more natural per each situation.


降り注ぐ雨 マジで冷てぇ
暗闇の中 歩くしかねぇ
everything’s gonna be okay 恐れることねぇ
辛い時こそ胸を張れ
Reply With Quote
(#6 (permalink))
Old
masaegu's Avatar
masaegu (Offline)
永遠の愛
 
Posts: 2,573
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Central Tokyo
12-06-2010, 02:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chryuop View Post
Thank you very much. So, by what I understood the difference is only in presence of long period of times. While if I am in front of situation like "I just called him...", "I have just come back home...", "I have just eaten..." it doesn't make a real big difference on which 1 I use. Then I guess it is up to a native speaker to hear what sounds more natural per each situation.
The difference, if I look for one, is that the phrase using ばかり often either implies or be followed immediately by a negative comment whereas ところ is more neutral.

今家に帰ったばかりなので(まだ手紙を読んでいない) 。

昨日ダラスに着いたばかりで、(右も左も分からない) 。

1時間前にご飯を食べたばかりなので、(このサンドイ ッチは食べられません)。

ばかり is like a negative counterpart of だけ to begin with.
Reply With Quote
(#7 (permalink))
Old
chryuop's Avatar
chryuop (Offline)
JF Old Timer
 
Posts: 704
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Oklahoma, USA
12-06-2010, 03:06 PM

Thank you. You explained me things that I didn't know and that can't be found in book Appreciate.


降り注ぐ雨 マジで冷てぇ
暗闇の中 歩くしかねぇ
everything’s gonna be okay 恐れることねぇ
辛い時こそ胸を張れ
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright 2003-2006 Virtual Japan.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC6