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hidarikiki 03-17-2011 09:14 PM

「賭博堕天録カイジ」の翻訳手伝い
 
Hello!
I have translated some sentences from Kaiji, but I'm not sure I have understood properly. Could you check them, please? Sorry for my poor English ^^;
So, the main character and his opponent are going to play a sort of tricked Mahjong match.

1) 「互いに互いを通し合う・・・という変則変形異様な二 人麻雀!」
I think is "They deliberately overlooking their winning pieces that each opponent have thrown...in a freak variation of this bizarre mahjong for two players!" (The game is unusual also because Mahjong is commonly played by four players, and they are only two, and then also because this variation starts already in Tenpai.)

2) 縁起をかつぐ basically means that someone doing something as a gesture to ward off bad luck?

3) 初戦は真剣勝負というパターンでスーッとうまくいって ますから!
The first match is an earnest game pattern so that everything going well!
しかし、カイジの手は社長に100%それが伝わらぬよ う細工ができる!
However, Kaiji's hand can be manipulated in order to make it 100% safe (from boss' spying)

4) この行為はあまり露骨にはできないあくまで怪しまれな い程度に・・・という但し書き付きだが・・・ともかく カイジは時々前田の「通し」を封じることができる!
Unless sometimes Kaiji blocks Maeda view, in order to don't let the opponent can suspect a thing until the end, acting this way can't be too much displayed!

5) この利の分カイジが有利!特権!ただ・・・実際は手牌 選択の様子を前田に見られてる以上、すぐ伏せたことし ても、実は、手牌はほとんどバレバレである!
That's very advantageous for Kaiji, a privilege! But, since Maeda actually can see the tiles' choice, even if they are swiftly turn over, the fact is that the hand is almost completely revealed!

6) 今カイジにとって気掛かりなのは勝ち負けでなく匙加減 だ!どこでどう相手に勝ちを譲り負けてやるか?勝つと きはどう勝っていけば敵が深みに嵌るか?
Now, for Kaiji, the main worry isn't a victory or a defeat...the main worry is to make careful consideration! At what point and how is better to yield the victory to the opponent and being defeated? And In the winning moment, If/when he win will the opponent fall into the trap? (I'm not sure it makes sense at all XD)
I'm not sure about the proper translation of that 勝つときは...

Sorry if this is quite long...many thanks in advance!

masaegu 03-18-2011 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidarikiki (Post 857337)
Hello!
I have translated some sentences from Kaiji, but I'm not sure I have understood properly. Could you check them, please? Sorry for my poor English ^^;
So, the main character and his opponent are going to play a sort of tricked Mahjong match.

1) 「互いに互いを通し合う・・・という変則変形異様な二 人麻雀!」
I think is "They deliberately overlooking their winning pieces that each opponent have thrown...in a freak variation of this bizarre mahjong for two players!" (The game is unusual also because Mahjong is commonly played by four players, and they are only two, and then also because this variation starts already in Tenpai.)

2) 縁起をかつぐ basically means that someone doing something as a gesture to ward off bad luck?

3) 初戦は真剣勝負というパターンでスーッとうまくいって ますから!
The first match is an earnest game pattern so that everything going well!
しかし、カイジの手は社長に100%それが伝わらぬよ う細工ができる!
However, Kaiji's hand can be manipulated in order to make it 100% safe (from boss' spying)

4) この行為はあまり露骨にはできないあくまで怪しまれな い程度に・・・という但し書き付きだが・・・ともかく カイジは時々前田の「通し」を封じることができる!
Unless sometimes Kaiji blocks Maeda view, in order to don't let the opponent can suspect a thing until the end, acting this way can't be too much displayed!

5) この利の分カイジが有利!特権!ただ・・・実際は手牌 選択の様子を前田に見られてる以上、すぐ伏せたことし ても、実は、手牌はほとんどバレバレである!
That's very advantageous for Kaiji, a privilege! But, since Maeda actually can see the tiles' choice, even if they are swiftly turn over, the fact is that the hand is almost completely revealed!

6) 今カイジにとって気掛かりなのは勝ち負けでなく匙加減 だ!どこでどう相手に勝ちを譲り負けてやるか?勝つと きはどう勝っていけば敵が深みに嵌るか?
Now, for Kaiji, the main worry isn't a victory or a defeat...the main worry is to make careful consideration! At what point and how is better to yield the victory to the opponent and being defeated? And In the winning moment, If/when he win will the opponent fall into the trap? (I'm not sure it makes sense at all XD)
I'm not sure about the proper translation of that 勝つときは...

Sorry if this is quite long...many thanks in advance!

1. Looks good. I say "looks" because I do not really know how Mahjong is played either regularly or in any particular way.

2. Correct.

3. Good. You do have a strange habit of ignoring the original meaning to arrive at something that, in efffect, means what the original says.

4. Original sentence structure got completely butchered but the end result is not bad.

5. Correct.

6. Not bad at all. 勝つときは, in this context, means "when he wants to win".

What it's saying is that Kaiji can win one-sidedly if he wants to, but he won't do it. When he wants to win, he will have to make it look like a close game so that the opponent wil want to keep playing.

hidarikiki 03-18-2011 03:03 PM

Thank you!
 
Thanks to your kind reply, now I'm quite sure about my translations.
Understand the literal meaning it's not so hard but translate it properly is very difficult sometimes, so in order to reach something close to the original meaning I have to break down the sentences and rewrite them ;-)
Thanks again, Masaegu!

KyleGoetz 03-18-2011 03:58 PM

Just as a suggestion, you might find it more productive to keep all your Kaiji translation questions to one thread.

hidarikiki 03-18-2011 04:56 PM

Dear KyleGoetz,
thanks for the advice! The next questions about Kaiji will be added to this thread, but for the moment I would like to leave the post about Mahjong terms divided from this :)

KyleGoetz 03-18-2011 05:24 PM

That's fine. I was just cluing you in on general practice here. There are a few of us who have our own threads where we ask the random questions, and non-random questions/things we make a new thread for.

See, for example, KyleGoetz's Questions Thread versus all the "Lesson" threads I made about grammar points.

Welcome!

hidarikiki 03-21-2011 07:30 PM

確認の不調減少
 
Guys, I have another doubt.
The sentence マンズ待ちまではわかったが、肝心のその待ちまでは、 といった確認の不調減少を装わせることはできる!means "Though until the waiting for the Manzu (the signals) were intercepted, at that crucial waiting, he'll pretends to misconceive the confirmation"?
The problem, in my opinion, stands in that 確認の不調減少, which literally means "A decrease in the bad working of the confirmation", I think. So, at that point, the spy pretends to have LESS problems in communicate the player's hand (maybe in order to don't let the opponent can suspect a thing) or is quite the reverse, he pretends to have some? That わかった lets me suppose that, until that moment, the spy has successfully communicated with the other player. Am I wrong? Where is the truth?
Sorry if this is pretty confused (><)

hidarikiki 03-21-2011 07:32 PM

確認の不調減少
 
Sorry, double post;)

masaegu 03-22-2011 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidarikiki (Post 858318)
Guys, I have another doubt.
The sentence マンズ待ちまではわかったが、肝心のその待ちまでは、 といった確認の不調減少を装わせることはできる!means "Though until the waiting for the Manzu (the signals) were intercepted, at that crucial waiting, he'll pretends to misconceive the confirmation"?
The problem, in my opinion, stands in that 確認の不調減少, which literally means "A decrease in the bad working of the confirmation", I think. So, at that point, the spy pretends to have LESS problems in communicate the player's hand (maybe in order to don't let the opponent can suspect a thing) or is quite the reverse, he pretends to have some? That わかった lets me suppose that, until that moment, the spy has successfully communicated with the other player. Am I wrong? Where is the truth?
Sorry if this is pretty confused (><)

The phrase 確認の不調減少を装わせる makes no sense whatsoever. I know nothing about mahjong but I do know the phrase makes no sense. Did you copy that right?

Hint: Homonyms

hidarikiki 03-22-2011 05:29 AM

Dear Masaegu,
I checked the kanji again but they seem to be correct...:confused:
Maybe 不調 stands for the homophone 符丁 (signal?) In that case, maybe it makes sense. But why the author had chosen a homophone? To suggest a "failure" of some kind?
多分、単なる誤植かな?手伝ってください(><)
EDIT: Solved ;-)


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