Handwriting & Other Questions

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

While I agree that hiragana → katakana → kanji is the proper path to take for the writing systems... I am a strong believer that no one should be learning kanji for words they do not yet know. You see this all the time, and I think it seriously screws up learning. If you learn the kanji at the same time as both it`s reading and it`s meaning (with the meaning being learnt in another language), you`re shooting yourself in the foot.
I see way too many Japanese learners who may know a bunch of kanji, but they don`t know more than a handful of words. Being able to say "oh, that kanji means such-and-such in English!" is ok for trying to skim over something and getting a very very basic idea of what it could possibly be about... But unless you actually know the proper usages, knowing the meaning isn`t going to help you much.

I say learn hiragana with katakana on the side, and work hard on learning grammar and vocabulary... THEN, and only then, start learning kanji for the stuff you already know. When you are advanced enough that you can learn new kanji you encounter by looking them up in a Japanese language dictionary instead of learning kanji = meaning in English, start learning new ones.

It`s really sad to see learners struggling over memorizing countless kanji when they can`t even make a proper sentence half the time. There are other things that are more important.

I think this is a much better, more well-thought-out post than mine above it. But at some point as an early intermediate, I think focus should be made on cramming kanji like mad. By that point, you probably know words that make use of probably a thousand kanji (if written in kanji). Also, you're probably about ready to start learning lots of new vocab to make the push to advanced. I know my vocab got a lot bigger, and I've been able to read a lot more hardcore literary and non-fiction essays without a dictionary because of my use of Kanji in Context (which isn't just about learning the readings of kanji independently of vocab; it integrates the two—perhaps you learn two or three new words and the kanji version of a word or two you already know, for each kanji entry).

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

I think this is a much better, more well-thought-out post than mine above it. But at some point as an early intermediate, I think focus should be made on cramming kanji like mad. By that point, you probably know words that make use of probably a thousand kanji (if written in kanji). Also, you're probably about ready to start learning lots of new vocab to make the push to advanced. I know my vocab got a lot bigger, and I've been able to read a lot more hardcore literary and non-fiction essays without a dictionary because of my use of Kanji in Context (which isn't just about learning the readings of kanji independently of vocab; it integrates the two—perhaps you learn two or three new words and the kanji version of a word or two you already know, for each kanji entry).

I`m not familiar with that book so can`t comment on it...

But I am of the belief that cramming kanji at any point is not really a good idea. The same with straight vocabulary.

In my opinion, the ideal way to learn kanji would go something like this;
Learn a word in context and become proficient in using that word.
Learn the kanji used in that specific word and context.
Encounter a new word using that kanji.
Learn the new word in it`s context.

And so on.
I really feel that it is overwhelming to learn a kanji and then multiple new readings and meanings at the same time. If you do not know the other meanings and readings independent of the kanji - then you don`t need to learn them yet.

This prevents any link between the kanji and meanings in English, and keeps the words clearer as someone is not trying to learn multiple (possibly similar words) at the same time and out of context (a recipe for confusion).

Learning new words at the same time as you learn the kanji is alright after a certain point, but as I said above - that point should be when you are able to learn the new word *in Japanese*. (ie. not have to look it up in your native language.)