Must the verb before 間 be in -te-iru form ?

[pacerier]

Hi all, is it true that when we use the 間 construct with a verb before it (e.g. 食べている間に本を読んだ) the verb that is before 間 must be in the -te-iru form and the only exception is the verb いる (e.g. アメリカにいる間に本を読んだ) ?

[Cola]

Yes, it would seem so. You could even simplify the rule in your own head by saying that the only verb that may appear before あいだ is いる.

A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar mentions "The verb before aida is normally nonpast Vte iru or iru, regardless of the tense of the main clause," but it doesn't list what the exceptions to this general rule might be. One exception shown in its example sentences, however, is "秋子は子供がいない間に本を読む。"

By the way, be careful about your 間s and 間にs. 間 means that the second event in the sentence occurred during the whole time of the first event. 間に means that the second event occurred during only part of the time of the first event.

Examples:

私は日本にいる間にキャンプをしました。
I went camping while I was in Japan (i.e., I wasn't camping the entire time I was in Japan.)

彼女がディナーを作っている間私はゲームをしていまし た。
While my girlfriend made dinner, I played video games (the whole time).

As a final note, with 間 or 間に, the subjects of the main and subordinate clauses can be the same or different, as illustrated in the two examples above (the subordinate, i.e. less important clause comes first; the main clause comes last). When the subjects are different, the subject in the subordinate clause is marked with が, not は. For the similar grammar construction -ながら, however, the subject of the subordinate and main clauses must be the same. -ながら also implies that the action after -ながら is more important than the action that appears before －ながら.

This page details some of the information I mentioned.

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by Cola

Yes, it would seem so. You could even simplify the rule in your own head by saying that the only verb that may appear before あいだ is いる.

A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar mentions "The verb before aida is normally nonpast Vte iru or iru, regardless of the tense of the main clause," but it doesn't list what the exceptions to this general rule might be. One exception shown in its example sentences, however, is "秋子は子供がいない間に本を読む。"

By the way, be careful about your 間s and 間にs. 間 means that the second event in the sentence occurred during the whole time of the first event. 間に means that the second event occurred during only part of the time of the first event.

Examples:

私は日本にいる間にキャンプをしました。
I went camping while I was in Japan (i.e., I wasn't camping the entire time I was in Japan.)

彼女がディナーを作っている間私はゲームをしていまし た。
While my girlfriend made dinner, I played video games (the whole time).

As a final note, with 間 or 間に, the subjects of the main and subordinate clauses can be the same or different, as illustrated in the two examples above (the subordinate, i.e. less important clause comes first; the main clause comes last). When the subjects are different, the subject in the subordinate clause is marked with が, not は. For the similar grammar construction -ながら, however, the subject of the subordinate and main clauses must be the same. -ながら also implies that the action after -ながら is more important than the action that appears before －ながら.

This page details some of the information I mentioned.

No, it would not at all.

Google or Yahoo Japan 「する間」 and 「する間に」. The results for each come in the order of hundreds of millions, and that is just with only one verb 「する」, too.

(Not that I need to google to know what you stated is incorrect.)

[pacerier]

Does it mean that 食べている間に本を読んだ and 食べる間に本を読んだ are both acceptable and they mean the same thing ?

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by Cola

Yes, it would seem so.

* * *

This page details some of the information I mentioned.

Your first statement of your post is contradicted pretty straightforwardly by the link at the end of your post.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by pacerier

Does it mean that 食べている間に本を読んだ and 食べる間に本を読んだ are both acceptable and they mean the same thing ?

Now this is the type of question I stick around on JF to see answered! I have no idea where to look this up or how to google the answer.

[Cola]

This (PDF, Japanese) is an interesting document from a 2010 convention on teaching Japanese at Nagoya University that mentions how most textbooks for foreign learners of Japanese teach that only ている from verbs can go before 間 and 間に and goes on discuss the usage of other verb forms that can be used, though it mostly focuses on ていた. It also includes quite a few excerpts of example sentences and explanations from various textbooks and grammar dictionaries. You can find all the articles from the convention (covering other points of grammar and areas of interest to teaching Japanese) here, as well as links to articles from conventions held in other years.

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by pacerier

Does it mean that 食べている間に本を読んだ and 食べる間に本を読んだ are both acceptable and they mean the same thing ?

They do but they are not exactly how native speakers would phrase the actions. The more natural way of saying it would be:
「食べながら本を読んだ。」 or
「本を読みながら食事をした。」

Your sentences actually give one the impression that you read all of a (rather thick) book while eating a meal. Mine are simply saying that you performed two actions simultaneously ---eating and reading.
_______

Examples of 「～～する間」.

「田中はすごい。オレが２５メートル泳ぐ間にアイツは 最低でも５０メートルは泳げると思う。」
This sentence would sound very wrong and unnatural if 「泳いでいる間」 were used.　It is because the speaker is saying this hypothetically. The two guys have actually never swum side by side to compete. 　

As a baseball fan, I always hear announcers say something like:
「レフトの小林がもたつく間に二塁走者の前田がラクラ クとホームに帰ってきました！」
= "Second-base runner Maeda scores easily while left-fielder Kobayashi fumbled the ball."
In this sentence, one can use 「もたついている」 as far as gramamr is concerned, but if one did, it would not sound nearly as professional or exciting to the listener.　Notice that the better announcers would pronounce the 「間」 as 「かん」 rather than as 「あいだ」.　

「瞬き（まばたき）する間に君はいなくなった。」
= "You were gone while I blinked."
One cannot use 「瞬きしている間」 because it only takes a fraction of a second to blink.

[KyleGoetz]

masaeguさん

「する間」と「している間」の使い分けを教えてくださ いませんか。

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

masaeguさん

「する間」と「している間」の使い分けを教えてくださ いませんか。

Excuse me but I am going to answer in English. It is easier for me to do it in Japanese but I am sure someone will request a translation if I explained this in Japanese.

First, I would like to state, in case some members here did not know, that when Japanese-speakers use the word する in discussing grammar, we do not only mean する but we mean to include all dictionary form verbs. The same applies to している or any other forms of the verb する.
_________________

When both　「～～する間」　and 「～～している間」 are "correct".

～～する間
This phrase sounds more formal, technical, proffesional, etc.

～～している間
This phrase sounds less formal and "everyday".

Now, there are actions that may occur simultaneously that people simply would not need to describe in a formal speech, such as "eating Cheetos while reading manga" and "picking my nose while listening to Lady Gaga". In describing these sets of actions, you naturally will not use 「～～する間」 too often.

The reverse case also exists. If an accountant is explaining in a book or lecture that one must keep "paying property taxes while you own your house", he probably opt to use 「所有する間」.

In either case, both forms are grammatical but the content and the occasion of the discussion require the use of one form over the other. Call this aesthetics if you want to. It is the higher level of "correctness" than the mere grammar itself that we are discussing here.
________________

Exceptional cases where only one form is correct.

「瞬きする間」、「あっという間」、「くしゃみする間 」, etc.
These actions only take a moment, literally. One cannot use the 「している間」 form.

「生きている間」、「結婚している間」、etc.
These actions, or rather situations, can literally last a lifetime. One cannot use the 「する間」 form.

And as in the first example about two guys' swimming ability in my previous post, one often uses the 「する間」 form to talk about something hypothetically.