利く potential/passive form

[pacerier]

Hi all, I've read a grammar book that says 利く has no potential and no passive forms.

I was wondering why is it that case? What's wrong with 利ける and 利かれる ?

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by pacerier

Hi all, I've read a grammar book that says 利く has no potential and no passive forms.

I was wondering why is it that case? What's wrong with 利ける and 利かれる ?

What in the world would the passive form of 利く even mean?

In any case, it's language. There doesn't have to be a logical reason. The natives say something is wrong, so therefore it is magically wrong.

You know, English doesn't have a passive form for 利く either!

[Sumippi]

Originally Posted by pacerier

Hi all, I've read a grammar book that says 利く has no potential and no passive forms.

I was wondering why is it that case? What's wrong with 利ける and 利かれる ?

「済む」「分かる」「出来る」etc. have no potential or passive form too, no? There might be some more...

[pacerier]

It also states that there is no imperative form of 効く

I was wondering why couldn't we say to the medicine: 心臓に効け！

[Sumippi]

Originally Posted by pacerier

It also states that there is no imperative form of 利く

I was wondering why couldn't we say to the medicine: 心臓に効け！

Hum...I don't think I'd say 「心臓に効け」to a medicine, but I'd understand what you mean by this pretty well... it's like... you're wishing/hoping the medicine will work on your heart. So I think maybe guys will say 「頼む、（心臓に）、効いてくれ！tanomu, kiite-kure!」and girls will say「お願いだから、（心臓に）、効いて！onegai-dakara, kiite!」. 効いてくれand 効いてare both the imperative forms in a sense, no?

[pacerier]

I mean that's what I'm asking about. Is "効け" considered grammatically correct even though it's a seldom used word, or is it considered a grammatically incorrect usage?

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by pacerier

I mean that's what I'm asking about. Is "効け" considered grammatically correct even though it's a seldom used word, or is it considered a grammatically incorrect usage?

My answer hinges on your answer to this question: Is "I am able to be able to do something" grammatically correct English?

Personally, I'd say it's a grammatically correct statement (as in, it follows all rules of syntax) that means nothing and so therefore ought not ever be said.

It's worth noting that "grammatically correct" should really be rephrased as "syntactically correct" in all our posts in this thread. Syntax is concerned with rules of sentence formation. Grammar encompasses syntax plus other topics like phonology. So mispronouncing a word might be termed "grammatically incorrect" from a strictly literal use of "grammatically correct." You mean "syntactically correct" in your questions and I mean it in my answers.

[pacerier]

Yes, what I was trying to ask is which of these statements are right:

1. 利く is a "normal verb", hence 効け is the imperative form of 利く

OR:

2. 利く belongs to a special class of verb that has no notion of imperative forms, hence 効け is syntactically wrong (just like how "I goed home" is syntactically wrong).

Which would be the correct statement?

[Sumippi]

Originally Posted by pacerier

Yes, what I was trying to ask is which of these statements are right:

1. 利く is a "normal verb", hence 効け is the imperative form of 利く

OR:

2. 利く belongs to a special class of verb that has no notion of imperative forms, hence 効け is syntactically wrong (just like how "I goed home" is syntactically wrong).

Which would be the correct statement?

1!! (^O^) because i found this. and I don't think it sounds weird at all.

効け〜漢方！｜やればできる子やねん