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ChannelR (Offline)
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A few questions... - 05-27-2011, 08:23 PM

Hey, everyone. I'm about a week or two from completing my N5 studies and staring N4, but theres been a few encounters I've had that I'm not sure on.

• I was watching an interview on TV, and after the interviewer asked something, the interviewee replied with 知らないです rather than 知りません。is using です the preferred method with some verbs instead of using the 〜ます conjugation?

• I only have a little vocabulary left, but regarding the kanji for the vocabulary, I could recognize about half of the volcab if I was to see them anywhere. I've never read it necessary anywhere, but is it expected for you to be able to memorize even the kanji for the 714 words? I wasnt sure if the 100 kanji was the only ones a requirement. From the list of kanji options on my comp when writing, I would be able to type them easily and recognize them but not necessarily recognize all 714.

• I have some noob questions too, I'm 90% finished the grammar and I'm learning with free online resources for the N5. It's regarding つもり. In all the example sentences it comes at the end of the sentence, even after the verb. According to my dictionary it's a noun, so shouldn't it come before the verb?
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05-27-2011, 10:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChannelR View Post
Hey, everyone. I'm about a week or two from completing my N5 studies and staring N4, but theres been a few encounters I've had that I'm not sure on.

• I was watching an interview on TV, and after the interviewer asked something, the interviewee replied with 知らないです rather than 知りません。is using です the preferred method with some verbs instead of using the 〜ます conjugation?
No, but young people do it anyway. I picked up the nasty habit of ending nearly all my negative sentences with ないっす when I went to university there (ないっす being a contraction of ないです). It is not correct in writing, but plenty of young people use it.

My own linguistic theory is that since the negative plain form of a verb behaves very similar to an adjective (same way to form past tense, て form, etc.) somewhere along the way the adjないです started bleeding over into verbない to make verbないです.

Quote:
• I only have a little vocabulary left, but regarding the kanji for the vocabulary, I could recognize about half of the volcab if I was to see them anywhere. I've never read it necessary anywhere, but is it expected for you to be able to memorize even the kanji for the 714 words? I wasnt sure if the 100 kanji was the only ones a requirement. From the list of kanji options on my comp when writing, I would be able to type them easily and recognize them but not necessarily recognize all 714.
My understanding is that you need to know for sure the N5 kanji, the kana for N4 vocab, and whatever overlaps. There may be more. IIRC, the bulk of questions come from the stated requirements, but they can have some that don't come from the official list. Maybe 10% or something. I forget.

I never took N5, so I wouldn't know for sure. But you can find sample questions and sample tests online.

Also, for what it's worth, it's a waste of your time and money to actually take N5, N4, or N3. Some Japanese universities let you in as a student with N2, but many require N1. Same goes for employers I think.

Aside from that, there is basically no benefit to having passed the test at all as far as anyone advanced here is aware of. I think Nyororin and MMM have voiced a similar opinion in the past, and they are among the most skilled Japanese-as-second-language speakers on JF.

In my opinion, studying for N5, etc. is a good way to structure your progress. But actually taking most of the tests is just a waste of money and time. I don't know where you live, but if I wanted to take one of the tests, I'd have to fly clear across the country.

Quote:
• I have some noob questions too, I'm 90% finished the grammar and I'm learning with free online resources for the N5. It's regarding つもり. In all the example sentences it comes at the end of the sentence, even after the verb. According to my dictionary it's a noun, so shouldn't it come before the verb?
Take a look at this Wikipedia article: 野球 - Wikipedia

Notice that there are sentences all over the place that don't end in a verb at all. The second sentence is
Quote:
球技と称されるものの一種。英語ではベースボール。
This is not because the Wikipedia-JP writers are stupid.

Informal speech and "technical" writing often do not end a sentence with a verb. This is probably what's happening with つもり (which is a noun), but without knowing the sentences you're looking at, I can't say for certain.

Last edited by KyleGoetz : 05-27-2011 at 10:31 PM.
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Supperman (Offline)
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05-27-2011, 10:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChannelR View Post
• I was watching an interview on TV, and after the interviewer asked something, the interviewee replied with 知らないです rather than 知りません。is using です the preferred method with some verbs instead of using the 〜ます conjugation?
Hi. I might not get your question's point, but "知らないです" is often spoken by natives. So it is a really-existing Japanese expression.

They try to speak "I don' know" in a polite way. To say the truth, it is wrong. 「存じ上げません(ぞんじあげません)」「存じません 」 is correct.

If I have to choose from the two expressions, I would prefer "知りません" rather than "知らないです", as you suggested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChannelR View Post
• I only have a little vocabulary left, but regarding the kanji for the vocabulary, I could recognize about half of the volcab if I was to see them anywhere. I've never read it necessary anywhere, but is it expected for you to be able to memorize even the kanji for the 714 words? I wasnt sure if the 100 kanji was the only ones a requirement. From the list of kanji options on my comp when writing, I would be able to type them easily and recognize them but not necessarily recognize all 714.
Sorry. I don't understand your English.

Talking about native-Japanese, I would say the following;
Native Japanese elementary school pupils learn about 800 kanji.
So 714 might be equivalent to elementary-school level, which is insufficient for native adults.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChannelR View Post
• I have some noob questions too, I'm 90% finished the grammar and I'm learning with free online resources for the N5. It's regarding つもり. In all the example sentences it comes at the end of the sentence, even after the verb. According to my dictionary it's a noun, so shouldn't it come before the verb?
Please provide the real sentence, to make a matter simpler.

I think つもりat the end of sentence would be;
1. It is not a sentence, but a noun-phrase/ noun-clause.
2. It is a question. あなたは何様のつもり?
3. The abbreviation of the verb "です".
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Realism (Offline)
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05-28-2011, 12:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChannelR View Post
Hey, everyone. I'm about a week or two from completing my N5 studies and staring N4, but theres been a few encounters I've had that I'm not sure on.

• I was watching an interview on TV, and after the interviewer asked something, the interviewee replied with 知らないです rather than 知りません。is using です the preferred method with some verbs instead of using the 〜ます conjugation?


• I have some noob questions too, I'm 90% finished the grammar and I'm learning with free online resources for the N5. It's regarding つもり. In all the example sentences it comes at the end of the sentence, even after the verb. According to my dictionary it's a noun, so shouldn't it come before the verb?
No idea what you're talking about with verbs before nouns or whatever

But if you hear a Japanese talk like that. Then it means that it can be spoken like that.
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