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Shameimaru (Offline)
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Trouble understanding the meaning of a phrase - 05-06-2017, 07:25 PM

So the thing is that I'm trying to translate a book in order to learn Japanese, so my knowledge is pretty limited.

I ran into the phrase :
閉鎖を尊ぶ幻想郷においで、他への関心を捨てて自己研 さへの道を歩む仙人が、あろうことか外来人と手を組ん だ動

I think I was able to understand the latter part, but I'm at a loss on how to interpret "閉鎖を尊ぶ幻想郷においで".

You will probably need the context :
-幻想郷(Gensokyo) is the name of the "world" the story takes place.
-Kasen Ibara is the hermit talked about. She kinda have to live isolated is this world (this is where I think 閉鎖 could take the meaning of "secluded")
-You should not transfer objects or people between our world an this one
-The 外来人 (outsider) is someone who came to Gensokyo (from our world)

So I don't know if 閉鎖を尊ぶ幻想郷においで should mean something like "to respect the closure of Gensokyo(the fact that nothing should go trough)" or "to stay(おいで) isolated in Gensokyo".

So I came up with this translation, but I have the feeling that I'm completely wrong :
"To respect the closure of Gensokyo and forget his interests in others to devote themselves to self-study is the path of the hermit, but the evidence is irrefutable that she was together with the outsider."
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05-06-2017, 10:47 PM

"おいで:OIDE" does not make sense in this sentence. It should be "おい:OITE;at".

Why do you think the hermit is female? I have never heard of female hermit in Asian stories.

How did you get these Japanese texts ? "動" at the last part is apparently strange and "自己研さ" should be "自己研鑽:じこけんさん;JIKO-KENSAN".


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05-06-2017, 11:21 PM

Thank you for your quick answer, apparently it was simply a transcription mistake made by myself ...
It really was the て/で that prevented me from understanding.

To be honest, I didn't even noticed the missing ん as it didn't "changed" the whole meaning (自己研鑽 was written as 自己研さん).

The book is actually 「Alternative Facts in Eastern Utopia」, the last official book about Touhou Project, a famous Japanese series of video games.

Ibaraki Kasen and Seiga Kaku are two female hermits from this series.
Also the series is known to have "almost" only female characters with human form representing different youkai. (It's not really classed in the "classic" Asian stories).

The error come from the fact that I am copying myself the lines from the physical book, and it didn't came to my mind that I could have made a mistake at this moment ...

PS: Your message clearly answered my question, but I don't know if their is a way to mark the Thread as [Answered]

Last edited by Shameimaru : 05-06-2017 at 11:41 PM.
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05-07-2017, 01:38 AM

I see. I found some female hermits. I did not know "麻姑仙" was female.

As the last part is not clear, I can not translate the whole sentence.

Don't mind about the thread marking. I also know nothing about it.


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05-07-2017, 11:35 PM

well, I personally came up with this translation :
"Over on Gensokyo, the land which values isolation, forget their interests in others to devote themselves to self-study is the path of the hermit, but the evidence is irrefutable that she was working hand to hand with the outsider."

However, I found that someone already translated this book that way :
"Here in our isolation-revering land of Gensokyo, this hermit-- one who walks the road of self-improvement while forgoing concern for others-- is clearly conspiring with an outsider, and this photo is unshakable proof!"

They took more liberty and the translation is not literal but it still helped me understanding the meaning of this phrase.
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05-08-2017, 01:31 PM

The source is very interesting. I can not make such nice translation.


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05-08-2017, 02:50 PM

I thought so too, but I'm translating only for the purpose of learning, and their translations is not perfectly accurate phrase by phrase , since it's actually made to keep it interesting for the reader.

I'm a bit bothered that it was already translated though as sharing my work was part of my motivation ^^'.
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