Martial Arts

[JoshAussie]

Originally Posted by Paul11

"The way of the Tiger is one of Tenacity and Power, and from the Dragon we learn to ride the wind"

-A saying used in our Dojo

You guys really say stuff like that in your dojo?

"The way to look cool is to make up sayings and pretend you say them somewhere"

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by JoshAussie

yeh it sux thats why S.W.A.T use it

by saying you would knee a soldier sufficient in KM is also hilarious... do you not understand that they are trained to keep you at distance till they are ready to stab you in the face? id like to see you try and knee sum1 in the chest after they jab you in the eyes and break your nose with there foot while your on the ground

What SWAT, what country?

Anyway, that is what I meant. Do you think a SWAT member spends more than 6 hours a week training in a KM class? Versus a Muay Thai boxer who spends over 6 hours a day training in a kick boxing class.

I could understand if someone wanted to keep me at a distance. Some people do, esp. if they are good at kicking. I spar against people like this everyday, and train specifically to get passed this to elbow or knee.

Honestly, you saying it is impossible to knee a part time practitioner of ANY style in the chest is just stupid. It shows a real lack of knowledge.

Any Army can put together a method of unarmed combat to give their soldiers a crash course in self defence, but in the end, the most effective style is going to be the one that is constantly practiced and refined.

It is said to take 4 years of full time training before a boxer or kick boxer can fight at top level in a ring (same same for MMA). Kung Fu styles recomend anywhere from 7 - 20 years of full time training before the style can be used at the intended level and a practitioner can be ready to fight against armed men (Wing Chun being the quickest style to learn at 7 years). A Samurai was not considered to reach his peak until in his 50's. The only people good at Karate when you go to Karate class are the old men who have been doing it since they were little or their own children. And despite all this effort at refining traditional and professional skills at destroying other men here you are saying the part time effort of a bunch of soldiers can surpass it and even they can stop a pro MT boxer from ever landing a knee, which I might add are landed somewhat 10 - 20+ times in every MT fight.

Soldiers excel in using modern weaponry. The skills they are taught for unarmed combat are taught as a crash course for them, and almost none of these guys will actually master it. Because of this is why the technique and power in the style is lacking.

Originally Posted by Amnell

Anyway, about KM... I have to disagree with you again, Tenchu. You say that a MT kick to the chest would be sufficient to quickly end a fight, and I normally would agree. The difference is all the shit that a soldier wears. Some bullet-resistant vests still use ceramic plates behind the kevlar, which would take away a lot of the energy going to the chest. It would still hurt like a bitch, but I don't think it would end the fight.

And yes, I have seen people break ceramic tiles before. AFTER significant preparation and meditation and actually knowing the ceramic is there.

ROFL. Good point! However, might I point something out that you never understand from watching it on TV. Do you have any idea how much that shit weighs? Along with the gun or rifle, ammo, water, and random kit? Then running around town all day wearing that shit! I tell you, a soldier is constantly exhausted. CONSTANTLY. You would not kick at body armour, so might I change the strike to a punch to the jaw!

Originally Posted by Amnell

KM is about ending a fight fast so that you can face the next opponent. They train under the assumption that there is never going to be an end to the opponents you have to fight, so the goal behind the movements is efficiency. They don't do any flowery stuff that you see in some forms of Kung Fu because it's a waste of time and energy. They just do one quick strike to the throat and turn around to face the next guy.

Seriously, Amnell, go watch something on YouTube. There are heaps of KM vids there. Watch the demos they do. You will see in every knee strike and kick there is the absence of the hip in the strike, this means the absence of power. If you have ever done any decent style you will know that power comes from weight, so will you strike with more power if you use the weight of the leg alone, or if you combine it with the bodys weight? Same same, they are a bit better with the punches, but a lot of them have nothing but the arm behind it, you need more than that.

You are simply not understanding the fact that the style is not practiced at a high level. I doubt you would be so confident in it if you knew how many hours these guys actually spend training in this. I dont know, but I have an idea. NOT LONG.

Originally Posted by Paul11

Well said. If it puts the guy down it works. Don'y need to be a balerina. And Tenchu, you don't know jack, because aikido is all about power and weight distribution and nothing else. More so than any other art.

OM> ROFL again. I would say balance and energy flow. The weight I meant was the transfering of your weight into the body of your enemy through striking. Aikido is almost the exact opposite, and Karate uses a lot of flicking, and not so much weight, most of the time.

[Paul11]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

What SWAT, what country?

OM> ROFL again. I would say balance and energy flow. The weight I meant was the transfering of your weight into the body of your enemy through striking. Aikido is almost the exact opposite, and Karate uses a lot of flicking, and not so much weight, most of the time.

Wrong. Energy flow is a way for inbreds and romantic people to say "body mechanics." Aikido is all about weight transfer and nothing else. I taught it. You suck.

[Tenchu]

Might I add, for those who say KM is a non nonsense art, as oppossed to other styles. It is designed to take someone down.

You might want to know in Kung Fu I was told if a fight lasts longer than 3 seconds you should probably consider leaving.

Same same in Muay Thai, they may dance around in the ring for 10 mins each fight, but on the street they say if it is longer than 8 seconds it is too long.

Everyone knows, the chances of surviving a street fight for longer than 10 seconds without getting hit is very slim. I would not drag out on the street.

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by Paul11

Wrong. Energy flow is a way for inbreds and romantic people to say "body mechanics." Aikido is all about weight transfer and nothing else. I taught it. You suck.

I dont think there is any need for the end remark. Honestly. You could simply say i was wrong.

By energy flow I meant like; dont fight force with force, simply redirect it. It is my understanding that Aikido avoids meeting your enemys force head on, and instead tries to divert it and use the power and weight of your enemy against him. Is that wrong?

[Jaydelart]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

You might want to know in Kung Fu I was told if a fight lasts longer than 3 seconds you should probably consider leaving.

Same same in Muay Thai, they may denace around in the ring for 10 mins each fight, but on the street they say if it is longer than 8 seconds it is too long.

Everyone knows, the chances of surviving a street fight for longer than 10 seconds without getting hit is very slim. I would not drag out on the street.

I'd have to agree with you on that.

[JoshAussie]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Some interesting points about the style is it is not a sport, and a lot of the people who do it never spar same like kick boxing or Muay Thai or so. In terms of striking it is lacking, badly. The strikes I have ALL seen are ALL weak. They never put power into it because they strike wrong, and would not hold up for shit in an actual ring. Lucky coz it is not a ring sport.

Krav Maga has taken moves from many differant martial arts.. Strikes and block from Muay thai and karate throws from judo and dissarms and grappling fro jiu-jitsu

so i think its funny that you say the strikes are weak when they are Muay Thai and Karate strikes... also taking into account the strikes they took were the strikes designed to do the most damage..

KM prepares you for REAL types of conflicts - so i dont know how you can say that youd just knee im in the chest, strike him in the jaw.. there trained to not let you do that.. and they dont just train on the assumption that theres only going to be 1 opponent, you train by following ring rules and hoping that your opponent isnt going to hurt you - people that do KM train by thinking that you opponent is going to kill you, thats why you learn things like eye gouges, knees to groins and kicks to the face while your opponent is down.. because there is no rules

Krav maga is trained 4 hours a day minimum everyday - they must do this for 6 months before they are allowed into real combat, this routine doesnt stop tho unless of course there in battle... by calling these guys part time practitioners is showing YOUR lack of knowledge not mine... (real soldiers do more stuff with it like "specialised anti terrorist training") i dont know what that is.... i only do normal KM 2 - 4 times a week, and am thinking about taking Kyokushin up again

as for street fighting "Everyone knows, the chances of surviving a street fight for longer than 10 seconds without getting hit is very slim. I would not drag out on the street." wtf.... thats what KM is designed for and your saying it would be no good .. your retarded

krav maga "is a real world killing art" to say that that some muay thai wannabe is gona come take down someone sufficient in KM is just stupid - your just a fanboy that doesnt listen to facts and whores himself out to muay thai because your ignorant and one minded

stop talking if you dont know anything about KM

[Henbaka]

I won't talk shit about KM, as far as I understand it it's designed to _work_, and not taught according to some old doctrine. I have respect for that.

Ofcourse a good kung-fu guy could woop your ass. But do kung-fu teachers revise the system constantly? Do they say "hey, this kick would not work in e.g. a bar, lets redesign it"? If they do, I've never heard of it.

Oh and well, if you bash Muay thai... Seriously go watch some real title matches from Thailand, and then say you could stand off to one of those guys in any setting.

Arguing about Martial Arts vs soldiers is as funny as it is pointless. A soldier will be trained to use his weapons and kill, in any way he can. And well, if a modern soldier doesn't have his weapons, then he's handicapped.

Oh and yeah, please remember people that the reason that most people actually train martial arts long-term isn't to be able to destroy drunk guys in the local pub. Instead most people do it to learn to control their body and for the exercise ofc.

[Paul11]

Originally Posted by Henbaka

I won't talk shit about KM, as far as I understand it it's designed to _work_, and not taught according to some old doctrine. I have respect for that.

Ofcourse a good kung-fu guy could woop your ass. But do kung-fu teachers revise the system constantly? Do they say "hey, this kick would not work in e.g. a bar, lets redesign it"? If they do, I've never heard of it.

Oh and well, if you bash Muay thai... Seriously go watch some real title matches from Thailand, and then say you could stand off to one of those guys in any setting.

Arguing about Martial Arts vs soldiers is as funny as it is pointless. A soldier will be trained to use his weapons and kill, in any way he can. And well, if a modern soldier doesn't have his weapons, then he's handicapped.

Yeah, I think most of us have agreed to that. And of course it's the person, not the art. Mostly, were argueing Tenchus foolish ideas ..and other proclivities he's thrown out there. Some of us just aren't even answering him.

Really, a really tough SOB wlth no training can waste a martial arts guy if he's not squared away.

[JoshAussie]

Originally Posted by Henbaka

I won't talk shit about KM, as far as I understand it it's designed to _work_, and not taught according to some old doctrine. I have respect for that.

Ofcourse a good kung-fu guy could woop your ass. But do kung-fu teachers revise the system constantly? Do they say "hey, this kick would not work in e.g. a bar, lets redesign it"? If they do, I've never heard of it.

Oh and well, if you bash Muay thai... Seriously go watch some real title matches from Thailand, and then say you could stand off to one of those guys in any setting.

Arguing about Martial Arts vs soldiers is as funny as it is pointless. A soldier will be trained to use his weapons and kill, in any way he can. And well, if a modern soldier doesn't have his weapons, then he's handicapped.

look.. id agree to most of that but not all of it.. but thats ok.. as for "Oh and well, if you bash Muay thai... Seriously go watch some real title matches from Thailand, and then say you could stand off to one of those guys in any setting." its not about me its about 2 people being sufficient and who would come out on top - and i wasnt the 1 knocking anyones MA till people started Knocking KM - i learn it so id like to stand up for what i study

Krav Maga meaning "Contact Fighting" doesnt revolve around weaponry but you are trained to use one if you have 1 or can atleast get ur hands on something that can be used as a weapon.. but as for being handicapped i disagree

But do kung-fu teachers revise the system constantly? Do they say "hey, this kick would not work in e.g. a bar, lets redesign it"? If they do, I've never heard of it. - KM is designed for places like bars.. so if we happen to get into a fight i dont see how we would be handicapped if its something that we are trained for and not the other person... thats the whole points of KM they are going top be handicapped not us.. its not designed to be used in a ring.. so to say it would suck in a ring is just dumb....