Martial Arts

[JoshAussie]

well i vote for zakudo or zacudo or zachudo

cause its like your name and like it has like kudo in like the name too and like im like so smart

[Paul11]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

With regard to the "TKD was influenced by Karate but is derived from Tae Kyun" statement. How do you decide if a martial art is the parent of another or whether it was simply an influence?

To me it seems redundant to make the distinction. I suspect this distinction only serves as Korean propaganda so as to sell the image of TKD as a purely Korean martial art.

Anyway... I always thought that TKD was derived from Tae Kyun and Karate.

No way dude, a fifth level ranger could kick a 10th level mage's ass! Who would win between the hulk and ironman?

I agree with you and these arguments are assinine. all these arts are related and interchangeable. It's not the art, but the person who uses it. Who cares where they came from? I like angelina Jolie, but I don't care about Jon Voight's nutsack.

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by Amnell

TKD did not originate from Karate. It has influences from Karate, but its direct parent is a Korean art form that was practiced by armies about a hundred years prior.

That is BS, Amnell. Look into it. Koreans have lied about a lot of things. The only form of kicking art the Koreans ever had prior to Japanese Karate influence was not a martial art, but actually a kicking game that in no way resembles TKD, like you said, but it is NOT TKD. Go read some facts and you will learn, and dont believe what your stupid teacher tells you. People find it romantic the notion TKD is an ancient art used to kick horse men from their saddle. That is just stupid. It is Karate, plain and simple, havn't you ever wondered why the Karate moves were all so similar if it was an entirly different art? Answer that.

Originally Posted by Amnell

TKD is an Olympic event, yet they score by points for contact. Seems professional enough to me :/ . What you're talking about is whether or not the system is based around hurting the competitors or safeguarding the competitors. MT, boxing, MMA and the like are all based on a system where your goal is to beat the shit out of the other guy more effectively than he does you. Wrestling, TKD, and fencing competitions are typically point based so that you don't have to wail on the guy to get points--instead, you need finesse.

Yes, sweety, but just because TKD has its own sport, that does not change the fact that guys are using it to win kick boxing fights and that the original art was designed for street combat.

Originally Posted by Amnell

If something is performed competitively under controlled conditions, it's usually considered a sport. TKD is a sport art. MT is a sport art. MT is much more combative than TKD because it has been practiced under rules that require you to injure your opponent to win, hence a lot of the super-ninja things that were developed three hundred years ago to kill an opponent quickly are still present. It's still a sport art.

I am really starting to think you are completely clueless...

Can you then explain the exact difference where someone who can win a Muay Thai fight is not overly qualified to fight on the street, also? Because I am thinking you are assuming all MT guys have brain damage or something, and can not fight without pillows on their hands...

Originally Posted by Amnell

You're mistaken about the stance in TKD. Our stance was not in a straight line. In fact, ANY art that teaches you to stand with your feet in a straight line to the opponent is a REALLY BAD art. The TKD stance is very deep, which allows for larger movement and a stronger base to launch kicks from. The hips more or less face the opponent, though, as with most styles. We also trained to move from Cat Stance a lot, starting with the fourth belt.

Om, you must be learning a different style than I am then! I bet you have trouble with those back kicks!

Originally Posted by Amnell

To do the MT Thigh Kick, we did have to include a step, though. It wasn’t so much because the kick didn’t work out of that stance as it was that you get a lot more power if you include the step. The step was a V step to your outside (with your front leg) so that you would have momentum already traveling in the direction of your kick and so you could plant your foot in such a way that you wouldn’t twist your ankle around four times in the event that you missed your opponent.

Yeah, I know what you are talking about, but the whole thing does not work out of the TKD stance. I am starting to think you are not doing strictly traditional TKD. It is the same trouble I have doing TKD kicks from a MT stance. I can not side kick or back kick without doing dramatic stance changes first, in most cases, and that is often a give away to your opponent.

Originally Posted by Amnell

That’s an example of the sport taking over the combat. At my school, we were taught to use the blade of our foot to concentrate as much energy in as small an area as possible to deliver the most damage. The self-defense school I go to now also teaches to use the blade of the foot, but their theory is that it’s the best way to kick a person’s knee from the side because the edge of your foot can almost fit in between the bones in that joint and tear tendons without even misaligning the joint itself, or something like that :P. That foot shape wasn’t taught at my TKD school until the eighth belt, when you start learning to break boards. Up to then, the emphasis was placed on your flexibility and your speed. [/size][/font]

That is a misconception. And dont believe it can not happen. I have seen black belts who can punch perfect, but struggle to answer the question of how to make a strong fist with your hand so your bones wont break when you punch.

You can not use the blade of the foot when you kick above waist height. The angle is poor and you will do better with the heel. When you use it to strike at the legs you simply use the blade as a pivot, to help further flcik the heel into the opponent, but you dont actually strike with the blade. It can not transfer power at that angle. Weight is best transfered through a straight line, place a right angle in there, like at the joint of the ankle, and you will lose power.

Originally Posted by godwine

Just to your first line. I believe you are referring to Hwarang Do that split up into multiple different arts. The split resulted in Taekwon Do, Hapkido and several different art.

And yes, it was more of an Influenced than a Copy.

Where are you getting this shit from, guys? I would like to see it, because I have not seen any proof of it.

[JoshAussie]

Originally Posted by Paul11

No way dude, a fifth level ranger could kick a 10th level mage's ass! Who would win between the hulk and ironman?

I agree with you and these arguments are assinine. all these arts are related and interchangeable. It's not the art, but the person who uses it. Who cares where they came from? I like angelina Jolie, but I don't care about Jon Voight's nutsack.

hahahahaha, very good

[godwine]

Amnell and Tenchu,

My knowledge came from research, like everything else in life, science, engineering, medical... everything... came from a bit of researc here and there. It may not be correct or accurate sort of speak, but it is knowledge that came from research, so I am only basing my posting off of what I know.

And don't go off calling an entire nation "liar", you have no rights to do such a thing. Its unfortunate that some like to twist history around, us, absolutely everyone, gain our knowledge from experieince and history.

I do appreciate a healthy debate and discussion, but not the hostility and aggressiveness from a certain individual. Such behavior only make you a narrow minded selfish person who has extremely poor learning attitude - Thats not what a martial artist or someone in a fighting sport should be like

Its either you are trying to act tough by down talking everyone or you are just a real loser in life...

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by godwine

Amnell and Tenchu,

My knowledge came from research, like everything else in life, science, engineering, medical... everything... came from a bit of researc here and there. It may not be correct or accurate sort of speak, but it is knowledge that came from research, so I am only basing my posting off of what I know.

And don't go off calling an entire nation "liar", you have no rights to do such a thing. Its unfortunate that some like to twist history around, us, absolutely everyone, gain our knowledge from experieince and history.

I do appreciate a healthy debate and discussion, but not the hostility and aggressiveness from a certain individual. Such behavior only make you a narrow minded selfish person who has extremely poor learning attitude - Thats not what a martial artist or someone in a fighting sport should be like

Its either you are trying to act tough by down talking everyone or you are just a real loser in life...

Ahhhhhhhhh... its an 'asiaphile'. Hit the nail on the head. I will critisize who I want how I want. It is truth. I said "Koreans have lied about a lot of things" not "every Korean". And that is true, they have. They are overly proud and this has blinded themselves.

[Narutocrazy101]

*Sulk*Is thier really nobody that practises pi gua?

[godwine]

Originally Posted by Narutocrazy101

*Sulk*Is thier really nobody that practises pi gua?

Pi Gua is a very ancient form, I know a lot of existing other art have taken several techniques and form from Pi Gua as part of their own, but I don't know of any school that teaches Pi Gua as it primary art

Its powerful, but too much fixed movement

Tenchu, you win, be the self centered person you want, not that it affect me or should I care. PS. I am not Korean, coming to their defense has nothing to do with my ethnicity and background... its call MORAL....

[Amnell]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

That is BS, Amnell. Look into it. Koreans have lied about a lot of things. The only form of kicking art the Koreans ever had prior to Japanese Karate influence was not a martial art, but actually a kicking game that in no way resembles TKD, like you said, but it is NOT TKD. Go read some facts and you will learn, and dont believe what your stupid teacher tells you. People find it romantic the notion TKD is an ancient art used to kick horse men from their saddle. That is just stupid. It is Karate, plain and simple, havn't you ever wondered why the Karate moves were all so similar if it was an entirly different art? Answer that.

Well, that's because the style the military was using didn't rely on just kicks like TKD does, genius. The info I got on TKD didn't come from any of my instructors; it came from research. I've never, EVER, heard of someone using TKD to kick a mounted soldier off of his horse before. If someone told me that they did that and they could still walk, I would laugh in their face! Karate influenced TKD. It is not the parent art.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Yes, sweety, but just because TKD has its own sport, that does not change the fact that guys are using it to win kick boxing fights and that the original art was designed for street combat.

Why are you calling me sweety again? Didn't we go over that last week??? I never said that people didn't use TKD in kickboxing. I was only talking about the difference between the sport practice of TKD and the sport practice of MT. To reiterate again, I'm talking TKD is it is typically practiced today: it is not generally taught as an art you would use to defend yourself on the street, even if it could be used that way.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

I am really starting to think you are completely clueless...

Can you then explain the exact difference where someone who can win a Muay Thai fight is not overly qualified to fight on the street, also? Because I am thinking you are assuming all MT guys have brain damage or something, and can not fight without pillows on their hands...

... What does ANY of that have to with what I said??? My point was that Muay Thai is considered a sport art. Where did I say that being a sport made it ineffective on the street? Stop putting words in my mouth.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Om, you must be learning a different style than I am then! I bet you have trouble with those back kicks!

Eh, not so much o_O . Back kicks are fun, and learning to do them from a cat stance is quite interesting--it's more about "when" than "how".

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Yeah, I know what you are talking about, but the whole thing does not work out of the TKD stance. I am starting to think you are not doing strictly traditional TKD. It is the same trouble I have doing TKD kicks from a MT stance. I can not side kick or back kick without doing dramatic stance changes first, in most cases, and that is often a give away to your opponent.

Hence the step before the kick. The step sets you up to do the kick very nicely. You're right, my school was not strictly traditional. Most TKD schools in this area aren't because if you can market yourself as teaching self-defense, you can get more soccer moms to bring their kids to your school. Hence, the TKD schools blend techniques from different styles into their curriculum to make it look street-effective (and someone who trains hard really will be, too). Learn how to do a cross-step; that should make it easier to throw a sidekick. From the MT stance, that would probably carry you sideways rather than forward... Hm, you'd have to experiment a little :P . HF ^_^

Originally Posted by Tenchu

That is a misconception. And dont believe it can not happen. I have seen black belts who can punch perfect, but struggle to answer the question of how to make a strong fist with your hand so your bones wont break when you punch.

Granted, but I'm missing how this relates to what I said :P .

Originally Posted by Tenchu

You can not use the blade of the foot when you kick above waist height. The angle is poor and you will do better with the heel. When you use it to strike at the legs you simply use the blade as a pivot, to help further flcik the heel into the opponent, but you dont actually strike with the blade. It can not transfer power at that angle. Weight is best transfered through a straight line, place a right angle in there, like at the joint of the ankle, and you will lose power.

Not true! I have watched MANY people break boards that were at chest level with the blade of their foot. One of our second-degrees broke one at head level with the blade of his foot.

I think I may have caused some confusion, though: We were taught to kick on the edge of our foot, sure, but we were hitting--ideally--on the spot on the blade that's right next to the heel. So we were sort of using the heel, but the foot was turned to the side rather than coming in straight. It's kinda hard to describe.

In any case, no one ever complained about losing power or having problems breaking the boards.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Where are you getting this shit from, guys? I would like to see it, because I have not seen any proof of it.

You can always start with Wikipedia. Then move to a real encyclopedia and finally into some actual literature on the subject. Seems to work for everyone else :P .

[zachart]

Originally Posted by JoshAussie

well i vote for zakudo or zacudo or zachudo

cause its like your name and like it has like kudo in like the name too and like im like so smart

well like you like sound like you like drunk like dude..... like..