Martial Arts

[Amnell]

*ahem* All silly claims of divinity aside...

Tenchu, I do agree with your assessment of the physical differences between men and women and your conclusions are more or less correct. I still say that a woman who has been trained appropriately can survive an encounter like the one I've described.

You have to admit that even a full-time pro such as yourself would be out of a fight right away if you had your eyes gouged. While that might anger you and cause more adrenaline to flow, thus increasing speed and strength, it doesn't really matter if you can't see.

Tiger Claw Eye Gouge is the first technique that all students at that school learn after learning how to form a proper fist. Why? Because a blind opponent is no longer an opponent. It always bugs me during our "slow-mo" sparring when the instructor says "Tiger Claw!!!" as a solution to almost everything. Oddly enough, every time I think about it, I can see that using a Tiger Claw would work in that situation. It only bugs me because I'm used to using a closed fist and not my fingertips.

Furthermore, a guy who wasn't smart enough to wear a cup would be in for a real surprise if he picked on one of our gals. The women's curriculum seems to be heavily influenced by the groin kick.

I can already hear the chastisements of how dishonourable such techniques might be... If you're fighting for your life, anything's fair game. That's why the Isrealis teach their military Krav Maga; they learn to do anything and everything, be ready for anything and everything. On the streets, it's no different. As a woman being attacked by a rapist on the street, I would do everything I possibly could to get away. As a man being confronted by an ass hole with an anger problem, I would do everything I could to end the fight as quickly as possible. I would have no qualms about doing something I maybe wouldn't normally do in an arranged, honourable fight.

Another thing you might not realize, since you've been doing a heavy, direct style for so long, is that a smaller opponent is not necessarily a weaker opponent. Systems like Aikido and Brazilian Jujutsu are quite elegantly designed to give a smaller fighter an advantage. Both of those styles have been incorporated to a degree into Yon Wuen Fa (our system, as my instructor has named it) with women and even children (pre-teen but >9, I'm thinkin') in mind. It also helps out the smaller men, such as myself (5'10", 145 lbs).

And always remember:

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

[Tenchu]

Amnell, Aikido does not work, for starters. BJJ might still work for small guys, but I have done BJJ and rolled in MMA before too, and I can tell you; the bigger the guy, the rougher the roll.

Quit with the acentuating of eye gouges and groin strikes, because they really are quite a basic thing, like you said; taught in the first lesson at your gym. Do you honestly think I have no idea how to do these things? And even after I do know that, I am pumped full of testosterone and I generally find controling my anger quite a challenge, even so, knowing an eye gouge does not make an opponent twice my size seem any less intimidating, I can only struggle to imagine the feeling of a female looking at the same man when she is without anger like me.

I dunno, I am not going into the whole Krav Maga debate again. I just want to point out; all things are possible, even for a young girl to take down several men. But there are no short cuts. These skills are developed through hard work and training. Kicking me in the balls will hurt me, but wont put me out of action. That is true about myself, so why not with others? Let alone, trained professionals who have equal or longer reach in arm than me have trouble getting their hands to my head, why should it be any easier for a women to get them there for an eye gouge when she has arms only half as long as mine?

Hard work and perseverance. Hit and run tactics like in Krav Maga might be good against a sloppy and drunk individual, but thats about it.

[CrazyLee]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Amnell, Aikido does not work, for starters.

As an Aikidoka I take offence to this, although to a certain degree I also agree. The techniques themselves don't work if your a beginner (and I class beginnner as having studied for less than 2 years) and you get jumped on the street. However the basic principle of movement; of getting out of danger, does. Aikido isn't the techniques; the throws or the ability to break bones. Its the art of blending with your opponent, redirecting his/her energy so that you can get out of harms way. And once your out of the way of a direct attack (puch, kick, etc) then you can do the second most important thing in a fight - run.
Lets be honest here, when you learn a Martial Art your learning to defend yourself. The best way of protecting your life is by not being in the fight.

And I'm now going to add something to the whole size and gender issue: it doesn't matter what size, gender, hair color, etc that you are. If you have the belief, the commitment and the drive to make a technique work then it will. Thats all you need, because once you start to second guess yourself then you lose.

Just my 2p worth.

[Henbaka]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Professional means you can or once did substanciate a living and career from the skill at hand.

I dont know everything about you but I would say you are an 'experienced' martial artist, not professional. Sorrys.

Anyway, women dont have no testosterone, which means not only their muscles can not grow like mens without this chemical, but they are also poorer quality. Also, they lack anger, which is a large part of fighting. I.e. speed and aggression. This is just fact, and the fact men are on average at least 2/3 the size of women is also fact, and not worth arguing. Also, the shape of the hips of women has been kept from physical superiority because they must remain the inferior shape in order to give birth. We are the only animals that give birth to young that have unfully formed skulls, this is because although evolution has tried to make women as best as possible, even by deforming their young, it ultimatly has trouble adapting to a 2 legged species. Women are not built as well as men for athleticness.

There is also a mental issue with the different thought patterns of men above women that happen to be more martially minded, yet that is a fine line and not true in enough cases to be ruled as fact, so I will let that be.

Yet do you honestly think you are not at a disadvantage?

Like I said, it is only extreme cases of full time training that can allow women to take down multiple targets in a swift and professional manner same like men can with only half the training.

On the up side, women are more intuitive, which is also a benefit of a good fighter.

Wait... did you just say women lack anger?

[Amnell]

I more or less agree with you about Aikido. It is a pacifist's art and aimed at doing everything you can to NOT kill or seriously injure your opponent. Even still, as has been pointed out already by CrazyLee, Aikido does teach some very good techniques for surviving an attack.

I also agree with you that size can be a big help to anyone who knows how to use it when it comes to ground fighting. However, our cumulative system is designed for fighting the Average Joe who has not trained in BJJ, Muay Thai, and Shaolin Kung Fu. This means that our smaller students have an advantage, even over larger opponents. Your average street ass hole won't know how to break fall, won't know how to escape an arm bar, won't know that posting will get him rolled by someone half his body mass, etc.

Our system is NOT designed for fighting people that have commited a lot of time to training in a martial system.

A trained individual such as yourself would likely be a hard target for something as basic as an eye gouge, even without the reach advantage you would have over a 5'6" female. But trained individuals such as yourself are not what we're worried about. However, even a trained person can succumb to the basics.

To demonstrate:

Kenpo is known for redirecting the opponents attention to land a strike. They will telegraph horridly with the right hand to make the opponent watch the hand (even one who knows better than to actually look at the hand will have more attention on the hand than elsewhere). Then a left snap kick will hit the opponent just below the rib cage.

Left Snap Kick, aka Front Leg Front Kick, is the very first kick you learn in any system, anywhere (excepting maybe ground fighting systems). It doesn't get more basic than that.

My school teaches very similar methods in the lower black belt levels to ensure that the basic eye gouge and basic groin kick are still effective, even against someone who's been in fights before.

Hit and Run is actually a very good strategy when you're in a street fight. If you can disable your opponent, even if only for a few seconds, and get away, you will be far less likely to get arrested for use of unwarranted force. In war, things are probably a bit different; hence Krav Maga would be a little differently applied by the military than by the civilian sector. Regardless, we're talking about a system that is designed to teach you self-defense, not how to beat the shit out of someone in a battle or a ring--all this goes for Civilian KM and for my own school's Yon Wuen Fa and any other system that is specifically sd oriented.

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by CrazyLee

And once your out of the way of a direct attack (puch, kick, etc) then you can do the second most important thing in a fight - run.
Lets be honest here, when you learn a Martial Art your learning to defend yourself. The best way of protecting your life is by not being in the fight.

That is not always an option, though. I have a wife that is with me almost always. She can not run, and I can not run fast carrying her. If she was in danger I would have to completely destroy the threat. The same would go for a home invasion where I can not afford to loose my valuable possessions. Running is rarely an option, as I see it.

Originally Posted by Amnell

I more or less agree with you about Aikido. It is a pacifist's art and aimed at doing everything you can to NOT kill or seriously injure your opponent. Even still, as has been pointed out already by CrazyLee, Aikido does teach some very good techniques for surviving an attack.

I would like to know some of it, too, but I dont see it as powerful as a stand alone skill.

Originally Posted by Amnell

I also agree with you that size can be a big help to anyone who knows how to use it when it comes to ground fighting. However, our cumulative system is designed for fighting the Average Joe who has not trained in BJJ, Muay Thai, and Shaolin Kung Fu. This means that our smaller students have an advantage, even over larger opponents. Your average street ass hole won't know how to break fall, won't know how to escape an arm bar, won't know that posting will get him rolled by someone half his body mass, etc..

Yeah, that is true. I like that one. No idiot on the street has the reflexes to block my punches - and I am 90 kilo, now, I can land a single hit KO if it is a flawless punch. Why was the arm bar good for me, again?

You have fun, though, Amnell.

Originally Posted by Amnell

To demonstrate:

Kenpo is known for redirecting the opponents attention to land a strike. They will telegraph horridly with the right hand to make the opponent watch the hand (even one who knows better than to actually look at the hand will have more attention on the hand than elsewhere). Then a left snap kick will hit the opponent just below the rib cage.

That sounds pretty dull, really.

Try something a little more simple. Like, flick kick at the groin then an upper cut to the chin...

You might want to watch the eye gouges, however, Amnell. When some piss head takes you to court because he was a little out of control wandering home one night and started at you for a random reason, and then procedes to explain how he lost both his eyes... you get the idea... Only do things like that when you are in serious danger.

[Amnell]

Lol, "fun", eh? Since I lack the ability to do a one hit KO punch, I'd say it's a lack of options rather than 'fun'.

But, as I've said, the goal is survival regardless of how it's attained--short of killing the other guy, if at all possible, of course.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

That sounds pretty dull, really.

Try something a little more simple. Like, flick kick at the groin then an upper cut to the chin...

You might want to watch the eye gouges, however, Amnell. When some piss head takes you to court because he was a little out of control wandering home one night and started at you for a random reason, and then procedes to explain how he lost both his eyes... you get the idea... Only do things like that when you are in serious danger.

It was just an example :P . My experience in Kenpo is pretty short, even if I did learn a lot. I'm sure that someone who's invested years in it would do some much more crazy things.

Your move would work nicely, too :3 .

Agreed. Though eye gouges are one of the first techniques we learn, we're taught in class and in lecture (yes, we get lectures on occassion) to use it pretty much only when we're certain life and/or limb are in real danger. That out of control guy might be out of control enough that he is trying to break your arm or choke you out or (for women) even rape you. As those present very real threats, the law in California justifies the use of whatever force you can bring to bear to escape the immediate threat. If the guy tried to sue you later, the laws regarding defensive use of force would be on your side--unless you also lost control and proceeded to do a lot more than scratch his eyeballs.

Most of the lectures we recieve from our head instructor are regarding law so that we don't ever go overboard. He's an ex-cop, so he's pretty familiar with the subject. When he doesn't lecture us law and justification of force, he gives us lessons on criminal psychology, which is usually pretty interesting.

*Another situation we're taught to use eye gouges in is when facing multiple opponents. For a guy, this might be in a bar fight were ten people are just attacking you because you rooted for the wrong team. For a woman, it might be an ambush in an alley where there are three or four guys.

[NovemberRain]

All martial arts are great for you. I would suggest Tai-Chi or Aikido for the calmer environment. I used to do karate and it was fun.