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08-26-2009, 11:16 AM

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Originally Posted by Ronin4hire View Post
That's like the least relevant response to my post you could've made without sounding batsh*t insane.

Well done Tenchu... you usually just sound batsh*t insane.
Why? Because I don't go around trolling people I don't like trying to accuse them of having Spartan heritage or something (as if that's an insult...)?


The eternal Saint is calling, through the ages she has told. The ages have not listened; the will of faith has grown old…

For forever she will wander, for forever she withholds; the Demon King is on his way, you’d best not be learned untold…
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08-26-2009, 11:18 AM

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Why? Because I don't go around trolling people I don't like trying to accuse them of having Spartan heritage or something (as if that's an insult...)?
Oh... spoke to soon.

You just crossed back into insane territory...
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08-26-2009, 01:00 PM

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Originally Posted by Tenchu View Post
No. If it's a fist fight, an untrained person doesn't stand a chance.
Who's talking about training in a class? This kid was trained on the street where they don't waste time breaking bricks and they use real knives, not rubber ones. I'm sure he could put down the kickboxer on your video in seconds.


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08-26-2009, 01:47 PM

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Originally Posted by Ronin4hire View Post
Oh... spoke to soon.

You just crossed back into insane territory...
See, now you know you've been pointed out as a dick, so you're trying to pay it off by resorting to cheap insults that have no relevancy to the current conversation whatsoever.


The eternal Saint is calling, through the ages she has told. The ages have not listened; the will of faith has grown old…

For forever she will wander, for forever she withholds; the Demon King is on his way, you’d best not be learned untold…
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08-26-2009, 01:55 PM

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Originally Posted by bELyVIS View Post
Who's talking about training in a class? This kid was trained on the street where they don't waste time breaking bricks and they use real knives, not rubber ones. I'm sure he could put down the kickboxer on your video in seconds.
It doesn't work like that.

First, guys who think breaking bricks proves shit are gay.

Second, MA is complex. A decent fighting style cannot be invented by a single person in a single life time. It's just too complex.

There's no fighting style that exists that was entirly created by one man. Even styles like Jeet Kune Do, which claim to have a "founder", are simply a collection of skills developed by over a thousand people in as many years. What makes them the fighting style is not unique skills, just a new direction and compilation.

There's just too many things to take into account.

If this kid could fight, he'd be nothing more than a brawler. Maybe your story is true, but it's impossible to compete against trained professionals when you've not learned from them (so before you going saying he'd beat my friend, Pet, keep in mind Pet has done over 100 professional fights).

It's like, a person can learn to build a fuel combustion engine in a single life time, yet only if he has access to the proper learning materials. If he had no library, it'd take him over 1,000 years just to figure out how to make metal.

Martial arts is the same. You may not know because you've never properly trained it (if at all), but a well trained martial artist kicks the f*** through anyone bare knuckle.

You can learn all the skills of the past in a single life time only if you learn them from those who pass it on. Reinventing the knowledge and wisdom of over 10,000 years of human combat is impossible for one man .


The eternal Saint is calling, through the ages she has told. The ages have not listened; the will of faith has grown old…

For forever she will wander, for forever she withholds; the Demon King is on his way, you’d best not be learned untold…

Last edited by Tenchu : 08-26-2009 at 02:02 PM.
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08-26-2009, 02:54 PM

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Originally Posted by Tenchu View Post

If this kid could fight, he'd be nothing more than a brawler. Maybe your story is true, but it's impossible to compete against trained professionals when you've not learned from them (so before you going saying he'd beat my friend, Pet, keep in mind Pet has done over 100 professional fights).
Most trainers or teachers have done only that, trained. A real fight, MMA in a ring is a real fight even though the emotions are different, is a whole different thing than sparring. Your friend is use to having rules in the ring. Maybe the kid would lose if he had to stick to rules, but out on the street is a different matter.
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You may not know because you've never properly trained it (if at all), but a well trained martial artist kicks the f*** through anyone bare knuckle.
Why would you assume that I never trained or was improperly trained? This is very arrogant of you to assume. Just because you are training in Thailand doesn't mean you are an expert on martial arts. Muay Thai is just one of many and if it was the best where are all the classes in other parts of the World?
I trained in Karate for several years and Capoeira with Mestre Accordion, who is one of the last surviving students of Mestre Bimba, the developer of Capoeira Regional. I also did some cagefighting, so I'm not some uniformed action movie watcher like maybe you think.
No matter how much training you do, until you actually fight your training is just a reaction to a preplanned attack. It is the unplanned and intuitive fighter that is dangerous. Someone who has seen your move before you finish it by surviving other similar attacks is the one who will win. A street brawler (as you like to put it) doesn't need someone to teach him (or her, I've seen some women I wouldn't mess with) what strikes cause the most pain or will disable someone because they've seen it or have done it dozens of times. You can't call yourself a warrior if the only person you've hit was wearing pads and is fighting on a padded floor.
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Originally Posted by Tenchu View Post

You can learn all the skills of the past in a single life time only if you learn them from those who pass it on. Reinventing the knowledge and wisdom of over 10,000 years of human combat is impossible for one man .
Yes, true enough. But what if one of those teachers methods are flawed? What if one teacher invents or "improves" a move that can be fatal in a real fight? Of course training is great because you can alter moves to a real fight as needed, but I will always disagree that just because someone trains in a class will make that person a superior fighter than a person who fights on a daily basis and might even enjoy it.


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08-26-2009, 04:07 PM

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Originally Posted by bELyVIS View Post
Most trainers or teachers have done only that, trained. A real fight, MMA in a ring is a real fight even though the emotions are different, is a whole different thing than sparring. Your friend is use to having rules in the ring. Maybe the kid would lose if he had to stick to rules, but out on the street is a different matter.
Why do you think he can only fight with rules?

I'm really getting sick of hearing "You fight in the ring, therefor, you cannot fight outside of the ring" - Where's the sense in that?

A style being used in sport does not automatically mean it has no other application. I, myself, train a sport used style for the purpose of feeling better about myself in real life; not for the stupid grandure of sport.

Also, I don't even spar much. I don't like it. It's way over-rated.

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Originally Posted by bELyVIS View Post
Why would you assume that I never trained or was improperly trained? This is very arrogant of you to assume. Just because you are training in Thailand doesn't mean you are an expert on martial arts. Muay Thai is just one of many and if it was the best where are all the classes in other parts of the World?
I assume you never trained because you don't know the benefit of it; untrained people cannot defeat professionals. It's the same as betting your money on a nobody against a military marksman in a shooting contest; the nobody will not hit the target. How hard is it?

I am an expert on martial arts, anyway. That doesn't mean I know everything, but if people can call themselves an expert on anything after they've trained full time for over 8 years, it'd be me included.

That's not because I train in Thailand, it's because I devoted my life to something. Just the same as there are many expert photographers on this forum, or Japanese speakers, or trolls (Ronin), and even belly-dancing Elvis bogans. People train things and they get good at it.

To make sure I get good at what I do, I do study other martial arts. I'm a massive fan of all Tae Kwon Do, Ninjutsu and also Kung Fu. I learn TKD physically (just practicing the kicks via DVD instruction because there are no teachers for it in my area), and you may have noticed the vid I posted before here who I called a Master was a Wing Chun practitioner, not Muay Thai.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bELyVIS View Post
No matter how much training you do, until you actually fight your training is just a reaction to a preplanned attack. It is the unplanned and intuitive fighter that is dangerous. Someone who has seen your move before you finish it by surviving other similar attacks is the one who will win.
What, you think they don't do this in Muay Thai? Of course, as far away as you can get from predictability the better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bELyVIS View Post
A street brawler (as you like to put it) doesn't need someone to teach him (or her, I've seen some women I wouldn't mess with) what strikes cause the most pain or will disable someone because they've seen it or have done it dozens of times. You can't call yourself a warrior if the only person you've hit was wearing pads and is fighting on a padded floor.
You're afraid of women in a fist fight? ...

Anyway, I prefer bear knuckle with no ring and no rounds. What said I don't?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bELyVIS View Post
Yes, true enough. But what if one of those teachers methods are flawed? What if one teacher invents or "improves" a move that can be fatal in a real fight? Of course training is great because you can alter moves to a real fight as needed, but I will always disagree that just because someone trains in a class will make that person a superior fighter than a person who fights on a daily basis and might even enjoy it.
Well, this is why you must have many teachers (as I've already stated, I observe and try to train a wider variety of MA, and I'm content right now because my current teacher was at one stage the badest fuc*ing man in Thailand).

You know, what if I were to agree that "training in a class" does not protect the eggs in my basket. That's not necessarily what I think. Do you know what I mean by training as a professional?

Here's a basic rundown of my daily routine:

0600 wake up. 0700 start training. First exercise is 1,000 round house kicks on each leg on a heavy bag to help strengthen the shin bone and develop kick power. This takes about one and a half hours. After, I do muscle work. Max reps, all muscles. Push ups, sit ups, bench press, leg squats, calf raises, ab wheel, so on. Maybe about an hour for this. After that, back to the bag. But this time I do everything. High intensity, high power combination strikes on a bag. About 1 hour for that. After that, technique work. Stretching, shdow pratice Tae Kwon Do high kicks for fun and development. Takes me to about 1200 midday, where I break for lunch.

Lunch is 2 hours. My wife does the shopping and food prep for me, so I eat at about 1215 on the dot after shower. I spend the whole time infront of the computer eating (good old Sumo technique; always rest after eating for over an hour if you want to store the food for bulk).

After that, it's back to training. I basically repeat the same thing over again. Yet the last two phases are usually broken when the offical gym classes start and I have someone to clinch with and the trainer to hold the pads and teach me new stuff. But I'll keep the routine the same if not. Knock off at 1900. That's 10 hours a day.

Most full time fighters do 6 hours over 6 days a week. I try to do 10 hours 7 days a week, but you know, sometimes shit happens, and it probably melts down just a tad to about 9 hours 6 days a week on average. But try and imagine the perfect week.

Now maybe you get an idea of how hard I work just so I can make about $350 US from doing 2 fights a month (which I just started doing) trying to support myself and my pregnant wife in a foreign country. It's not easy. Couple that with a belly-dancing Elvis dude on the net trying to tell you some street kid will kick your ass... you just don't believe it... see my pont?

I don't care if I got my ass raped 10 times a day for the first 15 years of my life, nothing can change how hard I work now, and nothing is going to make me believe that someone can rock up from nowhere and whoop my ass just because he got beat up once...


The eternal Saint is calling, through the ages she has told. The ages have not listened; the will of faith has grown old…

For forever she will wander, for forever she withholds; the Demon King is on his way, you’d best not be learned untold…

Last edited by Tenchu : 08-26-2009 at 04:11 PM.
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08-26-2009, 05:02 PM

Never mind. You've missed the whole point. And yes, there are some women that can even kick your "expert" ass. Overconfidence will be your downfall.
BTW, this belly dancing Elvis that you enjoy making fun of makes $200 a show dancing to 2 songs and I usually do 5 shows a month. Sure beats getting my ass kicked for $350 a month.


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Last edited by bELyVIS : 08-26-2009 at 05:06 PM.
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08-26-2009, 05:22 PM

I believe his point was, Tenchu, that particular kid's 'training' was through surviving constant fights for years.

Your comparison of a trained sniper to a 'nobody' doesn't match his arguement. A closer comparison would have been with someone who has learned to hunt with a rifle out of necessity. True, the professional may still have an advantage, but you cannot just simply brush aside the other guy's first hand experience.
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08-26-2009, 08:10 PM

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See, now you know you've been pointed out as a dick, so you're trying to pay it off by resorting to cheap insults that have no relevancy to the current conversation whatsoever.
Haha! Says the guy whose only comeback to my paragraph which was on topic

"Uhhh... the Spartan approach. I was waiting for you to get to there... so original."

Also... you're such a dolt!

Belyvis' point was that experience but no formal training trumps formal training but no experience.

Of COURSE experience plus training is going to win out over just experience.

It's not that hard to figure out dufus.

Last edited by Ronin4hire : 08-26-2009 at 08:16 PM.
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