The Final Fantasy Series

[Alastor]

I'll try to keep this short. I played MH on the PS2, offline. I mentioned it because I was comparing a repetitive levelling experience at Valkurm Dunes to playing Monster Hunter offline, and even then, Monster Hunter is more fun because there is no auto-attack ^_^. Do NOT get me wrong. I loved MH, but offline, it didn't last as long as I would have hoped. I used the word failure. It was a mistake. But I was referring to the repetitive nature of the game to compare it to the repetitiveness of farming/grinding/questing in MMO's in general.

I would suppose the FFXI experience varies, but generally, new people will not know too many people, nor will they end up in an awesome Linkshell. Level 1-10 will not take a mere 2-3 hours bcause they will NOT know what they're doing - especially if they're starting as a white or black mage. At level 18, however, you can finish the quest that will enable you to select support jobs which is quite fascinating, and at level 30, you might even be closing in on rank 5's airship pass. You'll be able to unlock the 14 different advanced jobs available. This is when the game becomes generally REALLY fun. This is a concept that holds true for ALL main-series Final Fantasy games . The only difference is that other Final Fantasy games present to you a continuous storyline you don't stray too far away from. See how Final Fantasy 1-10 starts. See how Final Fantasy 11 starts. There is a difference - the lack of a solid story.

Finally, I stated that I played FFXII for the Marks rather than the story. FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX and FFX-2 were all played for fun gameplay and story. FFXII just didn't suit my tastes, but it presented with something that I found was even moer compelling. I loved playing it. That's how I prefer my games. Fun and lasting gameplay first and foremost. Everything else is just there to enhance the feeling and give it more depth, so to speak.

I hope I didn't miss anything, or that I offended any MH gamers. I don't dislike the game, please, I just think that, as an aspiring game designer, they took an awesome concept and didn't bother to give it more diversity.


Let's not get off-topic now please

[Wyverian]

Originally Posted by Alastor

I'll try to keep this short. I played MH on the PS2, offline. I mentioned it because I was comparing a repetitive levelling experience at Valkurm Dunes to playing Monster Hunter offline, and even then, Monster Hunter is more fun because there is no auto-attack ^_^. Do NOT get me wrong. I loved MH, but offline, it didn't last as long as I would have hoped. I used the word failure. It was a mistake. But I was referring to the repetitive nature of the game to compare it to the repetitiveness of farming/grinding/questing in MMO's in general.

I would suppose the FFXI experience varies, but generally, new people will not know too many people, nor will they end up in an awesome Linkshell. Level 1-10 will not take a mere 2-3 hours bcause they will NOT know what they're doing - especially if they're starting as a white or black mage. At level 18, however, you can finish the quest that will enable you to select support jobs which is quite fascinating, and at level 30, you might even be closing in on rank 5's airship pass. You'll be able to unlock the 14 different advanced jobs available. This is when the game becomes generally REALLY fun. This is a concept that holds true for ALL main-series Final Fantasy games . The only difference is that other Final Fantasy games present to you a continuous storyline you don't stray too far away from. See how Final Fantasy 1-10 starts. See how Final Fantasy 11 starts. There is a difference - the lack of a solid story.

Finally, I stated that I played FFXII for the Marks rather than the story. FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX and FFX-2 were all played for fun gameplay and story. FFXII just didn't suit my tastes, but it presented with something that I found was even moer compelling. I loved playing it. That's how I prefer my games. Fun and lasting gameplay first and foremost. Everything else is just there to enhance the feeling and give it more depth, so to speak.

I hope I didn't miss anything, or that I offended any MH gamers. I don't dislike the game, please, I just think that, as an aspiring game designer, they took an awesome concept and didn't bother to give it more diversity.


Let's not get off-topic now please

I won't get off topic other then say I as a Professional Gamer disagree with you when it comes to Monster Hunter offline.

I only ever had one character I never even had a mule, so the whole doesn't take a mere two hours isn't exactly true. Then again I am an extremely quick study of a games mechanics, so maybe I am just an isolated case. I never even had a Linkshell till I was Level 15ish as a Dark Knight and then I was part of The Kitty Goddess's Shell. (From what I could tell the most famous Mithra on the server)

I will admit I started out as a Warrior, so maybe I did have an easier time then a White Mage or Black Mage. But as soon as I started playing I was making allies. Ahhh... Oljick (Tarutaru BM), Drewhenneberry (Hume Monk), Drewssmom (Mithra RM), Nakiko (Hume BM), Emelyne (Hume Monk), and of course Darkzero (Hume Drk).

I remember when I got my sub, I subbed Thief instead of Monk to make myself different from the other Warriors. I also remember my run to level 30 in level 17 armor <.< I was so poor back then. >.<

Now don't get me wrong I am not saying levels 18 and 30 aren't exciting because they are, its just every level can be exciting. I loved Valkrum never say anything bad about Valkrum again... Kazham and the Citadel however are nightmares.

[Alastor]

Your opinion is considered, and respected. With that said, I feel that you may not be up to date with how the game is right now. Because there are plenty more besides me who think the dunes are a bit boring. Can you explain, in your own words, how the dunes are fun? Because you haven't explained it, and I can't see how it is fun. You just might reveal somethig I haven't thought about, something to enhance the experience. But to me, right now, all I do is Provoke every 30 seconds and using weapon skills when I can inbetween auto-attacks.

I really think you've missed my point altogether...


Also, please do state how Monster Hunter is not repetitive. You still haven't presented anything that proves me wrong. Although it's all relative and a matter of opinion, I would never design a game to be like Monster Hunter because there is no DRIVE. WHY are you getting better gear? WHY are you hunting these monsters. WHY do the one who gives you quests want you to do this? WHAT is the story behind these monsters? WHAT ELSE is out there in the world? WHERE are all the other people? WHY can't I be outside the village as long as I want and explore all I want without having any sort of time limit? WHO are these people?

So many questions and most if not all are unanswered in the game. I'm sorry, but gaming has evolved to the point that many of these needs answers. With realism coms the demand of explanation and depth. And the fact that doing what you do in Monster Hunter is so fun only makes it worse that it had to be short on so many things. Counter-arguments please.


NOTE: I'm not bashing, flaming or attacking anything or anyone, I'm merely conversing and duscussing in a respectful and orderly manner here. No one should in any way be offended by what I say as these are just my opinions. However, these are my UNBIASED opinions. They're based from looking at it from a general gamer's perspective and from a designer's point of view. In reality, I've been moaning for over a year about how our local game stores never have this game in because I WANT TO BUY IT. Despite what I think are shortcomings that makes this game only so-so, I still want to play it because sometimes I want to do what you can do in MH. It just bothers me extremely much that I can't do anything else, which is what my point is.

[Wyverian]

Originally Posted by Alastor

Your opinion is considered, and respected. With that said, I feel that you may not be up to date with how the game is right now. Because there are plenty more besides me who think the dunes are a bit boring. Can you explain, in your own words, how the dunes are fun? Because you haven't explained it, and I can't see how it is fun. You just might reveal somethig I haven't thought about, something to enhance the experience. But to me, right now, all I do is Provoke every 30 seconds and using weapon skills when I can inbetween auto-attacks.

I really think you've missed my point altogether...


Also, please do state how Monster Hunter is not repetitive. You still haven't presented anything that proves me wrong. Although it's all relative and a matter of opinion, I would never design a game to be like Monster Hunter because there is no DRIVE. WHY are you getting better gear? WHY are you hunting these monsters. WHY do the one who gives you quests want you to do this? WHAT is the story behind these monsters? WHAT ELSE is out there in the world? WHERE are all the other people? WHY can't I be outside the village as long as I want and explore all I want without having any sort of time limit? WHO are these people?

So many questions and most if not all are unanswered in the game. I'm sorry, but gaming has evolved to the point that many of these needs answers. With realism coms the demand of explanation and depth. And the fact that doing what you do in Monster Hunter is so fun only makes it worse that it had to be short on so many things. Counter-arguments please.


NOTE: I'm not bashing, flaming or attacking anything or anyone, I'm merely conversing and duscussing in a respectful and orderly manner here. No one should in any way be offended by what I say as these are just my opinions. However, these are my UNBIASED opinions. They're based from looking at it from a general gamer's perspective and from a designer's point of view. In reality, I've been moaning for over a year about how our local game stores never have this game in because I WANT TO BUY IT. Despite what I think are shortcomings that makes this game only so-so, I still want to play it because sometimes I want to do what you can do in MH. It just bothers me extremely much that I can't do anything else, which is what my point is.

Okay you want examples those are easy enough to give. Take a level 15 or so party and camp and level where the Valkrum Emperor spawns. Then proceed to claim and run when it spawns, I enjoyed watching him rip through level tens to the point I was laughing so hard I was crying. Also it all depends on your group, I find that the groups in Valkrum tend to be very stupid so I sat back and laughed at them. I was a very good party leader so I was able to get the team to work together quite well to the point we had skill chains going.

I found the variation of item finding, capture, and hunting quests to be enough. I also thought the variety of Monsters was nice. Why get better gear, I find a game FAQ person put it this way.

"Quests means more junk
More Junk means better monsters you can beat
Better monsters means more Quests
More Quests means Better Junk"

As I said my opinion, you will just have to settle for me disagreeing with you. But since you are demanding answers I will delve as deep as I can. You are hunting Monsters to become the best Hunter in the world, the game even states that. As for why they want you to do that did you not even read the quest description it tells you why right in there! What is the story of the animals on earth? I am pretty sure its the same as the monsters in the game. I am guessing there are other towns and villages in the world as well as deserts, mountains, volcanoes, plains, jungles, and etc... You are doing a mission that you have a time limit, and the game is mission based hence why the time limits. They are your friends and family.

Now you don't get off topic this is a Final Fantasy 11 thread not a Monster Hunter thread.

[Alastor]

Fair enough, there we have it, the game is, as stated, merely about that: gear, quests, monsters. And all in all, you're fine with it, I'm not. That's all I was basically looking for, to see what it was you enjoyed about the game. It's interesting to know what people with an opinion that differs from my own thinks about certain games. I don't think it needs to be really discussed anymore because it all boils down to taste of game style. You're fine with the mission-based system, I would've preferred more exploring and free-roaming. But you actually did make a incredibly valid statement regarding the (his)story of the monsters. That was actually stupid of me.

Now back to the topic at hand: Final Fantasy XI. Boy, do you have any idea how lucky you must've been? I have NEVER had anyone mention any Valkurm Emperor to me. I've NEVER been skill-chaining. And I think all that is because I'm playing this game 7 years after its release. I'm almost always the only one who lacks a subjob and is ranked below 5. These guys just want to level so they can do endgame stuff. They have their Linkshells and their friends, they don't need to be friends with me at all. I'm there to be their tank, and once the party disbands, I won't talk to them again, or something to that extent.

See where I'm getting at? In the current state, anyone who would want to start playing would feel less excited about the game since it would be 1 newbie in 10 000 endgamers. For someone who isn't familiar with the game will easily find him or herself killed by mobs, who will realize the tediousness of constant Healing and the loneliness that comes with 1-10. Sure, at first there's a level of excitement but the place is overwhelming and there's no actual guiding of the place. There is a reason why many players stop playing before their free 30 days are over, y'know.

[Wyverian]

Originally Posted by Alastor

Now back to the topic at hand: Final Fantasy XI. Boy, do you have any idea how lucky you must've been? I have NEVER had anyone mention any Valkurm Emperor to me. I've NEVER been skill-chaining. And I think all that is because I'm playing this game 7 years after its release. I'm almost always the only one who lacks a subjob and is ranked below 5. These guys just want to level so they can do endgame stuff. They have their Linkshells and their friends, they don't need to be friends with me at all. I'm there to be their tank, and once the party disbands, I won't talk to them again, or something to that extent.

See where I'm getting at? In the current state, anyone who would want to start playing would feel less excited about the game since it would be 1 newbie in 10 000 endgamers. For someone who isn't familiar with the game will easily find him or herself killed by mobs, who will realize the tediousness of constant Healing and the loneliness that comes with 1-10. Sure, at first there's a level of excitement but the place is overwhelming and there's no actual guiding of the place. There is a reason why many players stop playing before their free 30 days are over, y'know.

Buy the strategy guide it helps a lot, thats why I knew about skill chains and the like.

Also you never NEED to make friends, its like in real life you have to try and make friends. You can party bounce thats what I did for the most part, or you can static with friends. As for mobs avoid Beastmen as a general rule they are generally the highest level creatures in an area and they tend to aggro.

Very few games get exciting right at the start, so Its just like any game in my opinion. You just have to make the best of the first few steps.

There is also a reason there are so many people at max level and still play as well.

Now go find him!

[MazarDantechildofdevil]

I've never played... Although it seems like and extremely fun game...

[Alastor]

Haha, of course most games start out slow, but after 48 hours of gameplay, I still think FFXI hasn't really started properly, and hate that. Games should NEVER take a long time to kick it off. Unfortunately they do, but look at games like Devil May Cry, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy IX, Alundra, Diablo 2, or Parasite Eve 2. A few of the games I've played and that I like, and they all have a fairly speedy start.

Then again, FFXI is an MMORPG and you're supposed to make it start for yourself, but it's still hard when there are so few low-levels. On the other hand, I'm enjoying this game loads; you just have to get past the repetitive levelling between 1-10. But it's kind of bad of Square-Enix to have the beginning be so boring XD. I don't know why MMORPG's have these slow starts.

[Wyverian]

Well do some quests when you start out, there are some beginning level quests you can do to make leveling less boring. Or if you can befriend a High Level Mage (that is either main or subbing White Mage, Scholar, Blue Mage, Red Mage, or Paladin) have them power level you to make the road to level ten super super fast.

Also it shouldn't be to hard to find low main level jobbers... I located this chart that shows the rate of Main Job levels.

[XjapanFOREVER]

EDIT
*Didn't notice this was an FF XI thread*