Wold you kill Betthoven?

[Nachtschatten]

Originally Posted by Maku

You can't lead a country without influencing them first.

What's the point?

[Nachtschatten]

Originally Posted by Maku

I don't it is that wrong because he was the figurehead and the authoritarian power.
He was also the social model for the people at that time.

But that doesn't make him a good LEADER. Don't talk around it. Name examples for good leadership (no attributes, but improvements). In which points did he bring Germany forward?

[Maku]

He did what he saw as bringing Germany forward. I said he was a good leader with bad ideas, meaning he could've done great things but alas chose to do otherwise.
I'm not talking around anything, I've already described leadership twice, you're just choosing not to consider the facts.

[Nachtschatten]

Originally Posted by Maku

He did what he saw as bringing Germany forward. I said he was a good leader with bad ideas, meaning he could've done great things but alas chose to do otherwise.
I'm not talking around anything, I've already described leadership twice, you're just choosing not to consider the facts.

But you don't give any facts...
Leadership goes along with lots of responsibilities and duties and if you don't work on them, you're simply not a good leader. Right from the beginning, Hitler had only in mind to revenge the treaties of Versailles. While he was imprisoned after his first coup he wrote a book which summarized his goals that he followed all the years afterwards. And he just chased after that (nullification of the contract of Versailles, enlargement of Germany to the east,...). He did not think about improving living standards of the people. His foreign policy formed his domestic policy. It was only the effect of his foreign policy or was only governed in such a way to support his foreign policy.
Does this make Hitler a good leader?

[Maku]

Yes it does, because he influenced people into thinking in his frame of mind.

[Fratello]

Originally Posted by Nachtschatten

But these things don't make one a good leader. He totally ruined Germany (even before the war).

you know nothing

Hitler oversaw one of the greatest expansions of industrial production and civil improvement Germany had ever seen, Hitler also oversaw one of the largest infrastructure-improvement campaigns in German history, with the construction of dozens of dams, autobahns, railroads, and other civil works. Hitler's policies emphasized the importance of family life.

and of course his military power and strategies are well known to be very effective, until the later stages

[Nachtschatten]

Newspapers in 1932: 4703 (94 of the NSDAP)
Newspapers in 1944: 977 (352 of the NSDAP)

Investments into armament in 1932: 0.6 Billion Reichsmark (1.3% of income)
Investments into armament in 1938: 17.2 Billion Reichsmark (21.0 % of income)

His leadership meant blinding the people and spending increasing amounts of money for military upgrade.

@ Fratello: If I spend all my money for the next few days on things like holiday, clothes, massages, long nights in the bar, etc., it would be a lot of improvement of my living condition. But what comes after that? Look at Louis XIV. Improvements need money, and where does that come from?

[Hisuwashi]

Hitler's economic policies were good. He did successfully reduce unemployment, and revive Germany's military and industrial might, albeit that he cheated by putting Jews into concentration camps (so their jobs were lost, creating jobs for the regular Germans) and conscription into the Wehrmacht (armed forces).

[Acidreptile]

Wow you people are very well informed.

[Maku]

Either we get bored and decide to read up on pointless information (like me), or do/did History in school.