Trouble Understanding Obaasan

[StrandedAlien]

Hi. My name is Chris and my grandma (Obaasan) is Japanese.

She's been living with us (her children and grandchildren) for about five years now. The family is made up entirely of eccentrics, and they are extremely direct. In fact, my family is so direct that tatemae/honne distinctions are almost unheard of amongst the grandchildren. As you might expect, she has had "a bit" of trouble adjusting to the culture.

One ongoing problem is Obaasan's constant helping. That feels weird to write. It's even weirder to watch. What pretty much happens is this:

It comes time to clear the table, which is the kids' chore. Mom doesn't want Obaasan to clear the table. She wants the kids to learn responsibility, and she feels more than a little uncomfortable watching an almost ninety-year-old do chores. Obaasan waits until Mom isn't watching, then clears the table anyway. Mom tells her every night for about two months that she is not permitted to clear the table, and gives straightforward reasons. Obaasan does it anyway.

The way I see it, there is a clash of "cultural bubbles" (expectations) going on. Mom believes that the kids should be responsible for their own dishes. She also believes that elderly people should not be expected to wait on younger people; that they should be rewarded now for the work they did in their youth.

Here's my problem. I haven't got a clue what is in Obaasan's cultural bubble.

I have a theory. I understand that in uchi relationships in Japan, one person will act as the "indulger" (and thus be more disciplined) and the other person will act as the "indulged" (and be allowed to be spontaneous). The role of indulger often falls on the okaasan. Obaasan was okaasan for a long time. I also think that maybe since she sees the rest of us acting spontaneously together, she takes it upon her self to be the indulger. I think maybe she sees our directness as being harsh, and tries to be nice to us grandkids.

How do you all see the situation?

[Nyororin]

I take it as her staking out a a place for herself in the household. I do not believe that it has anything at all to do with indulging or serving anyone... Or even cultural clashes.

Other than clearing the table - what is she responsible for? Anything? Or is she expected to just "be there"?
It may sound strange, but it may be far more hurtful to try to make things overly easy on her. Basically, it would be robbing her of her place in the household. Is she part of the household? Or is she just freeloading? I think that everyone would definitely answer that their grandparents are part of the household... But without responsibilities, it may not feel that way to them
She is capable of clearing the table. She has always cleared the table. That`s her household duty. Stopping her is along the lines of saying she is no longer needed. If she is no longer capable, that is one thing - but just wanting her to take it easy because she`s old is likely to be very painful for her.

It may sound silly when put in the context of dishes... But how many years has that been her daily routine? If she has been clearing the table every day for 60 or 70 years - Imagine what it would feel like to be told that something you`d done every day for your entire life was now something you were "too old" for.

Or even imagine a company situation. You`ve been working there for years, have been doing job A the entire time - in fact, it is your main responsibility. Then, the boss tells you that it isn`t your job anymore. You`ll still get the same pay, but you aren`t to do anything. Just sit back and they`ll have the new employees do your former job to build responsibility... But now you have nothing to do at all and just sit around.

It is a hurtful thing, especially if that was the main "job" for the grandparent in question. I have met plenty of people who feel that the elderly should be rewarded for their work in youth... But not a single one of them was actually elderly. Once to the point where they should be "reaping the rewards" - they all wanted desperately to not be considered "too old" to do things they`d always done.

And it isn`t just an emotional thing. It has been shown in countless studies that the fewer responsibilities an elderly (retired / not in the workforce) person has, the more quickly their health deteriorates and the poorer their quality of life. A person with no sense of purpose in their daily activities is also more prone to developing depression...

It`s fine to want the children to develop - but it will probably be better in the long run to either find another way to do so, or to provide grandmother with some other, equal task. Instead of "sit back and let them do it" - "Grandma, can you do this and this?"

[StrandedAlien]

Thanks Nyororin! I have often had trouble communicating with Obaasan, and even when I can communicate, I have a lot of trouble with empathy. You did a great job showing me her side of the story!

I can see how expecting her to sit around and be waited on is like robbing her of her role in the household. She has made several comments saying she feels like she is freeloading.

I'll tell Mom what I found out. She is frequently as clueless as I am when it comes to this, so she'll be happy to find out what I've learned.

You seem to be pretty knowledgable about this. Could I pm you if I have another question?

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by StrandedAlien

I can see how expecting her to sit around and be waited on is like robbing her of her role in the household. She has made several comments saying she feels like she is freeloading.

I wouldn't say this is uniquely Japanese either; my Granny is just the same when she comes to stay. She never wants to be treated like a guest, so we have Granny's jobs. She's genuinely too frail to do much, but we always try and accommodate her in the chores. Like she clears the table, but kids do all the washing and drying of the dishes, and she helps make the coffee or puts the leftovers away. That kind of thing.

[Nyororin]

You seem to be pretty knowledgable about this. Could I pm you if I have another question?

I have a pretty strong interest in psychology and human development. Most definitely not an expert - but feel free to ask away.

Originally Posted by Columbine

I wouldn't say this is uniquely Japanese either; my Granny is just the same when she comes to stay.

Yep. It has pretty much nothing to do with culture, really. People want to have roles in life. Losing those roles because you`re "old" - and not necessarily because you`re unable - has to be extremely painful. Perhaps even more painful than actually being unable to do these things, as it is more about how your family perceives you than your physical state.

Unless it is actually hurting her to do these things, then there is no reason to stop her.

[TalnSG]

I think Nyororin is right. This sounds like a classic case of an elderly family member needing to feel useful. Without some concrete way of contributing to the whole, she is feeling distanced from everyone. It crosses all cultures that I can think of.

Maybe you could start planning for a small dessert course - even if only fruit. Have Obaasan help your wife plate the dishes in the kitchen while the kids do their chore of cleaning the table from the main meal. That way Obaasan will be busy while the kids do as they are expected to and she performing a task that contributes to everyone. And if there is also an element of her trying to seem like the "good guy" to the kids, the dessert will satisfy that too.

Simple things like that can make a difference.

[WingsToDiscovery]

I agree as well. It's a similar case to people who have developed some kind of life altering disability, and their emotions with wanting to do a particular task that they regularly did before, but now are limited due to the disability. People don't want to feel like they've become "obsolete."

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Yep. It has pretty much nothing to do with culture, really. People want to have roles in life. Losing those roles because you`re "old" - and not necessarily because you`re unable - has to be extremely painful. Perhaps even more painful than actually being unable to do these things, as it is more about how your family perceives you than your physical state.

Unless it is actually hurting her to do these things, then there is no reason to stop her.

I remember very strongly as a child being told to go sit down, I couldn't do this or that activity that other people in the house were doing because I was 'too little', and the feeling of hurt and frustration it gave me. Especially when I knew darn well I did them anyway when no one was around to tell me not to. I figure it's a similar thing when you're old.