how bad is sexism and prejudice in Japan?

[Nyororin]

Kawaiineko - I seriously and honestly believe that you need some sort of anger management help of some sort. I mean this entirely truthfully, and not in an insulting way. I am only concerned.

Everything I quoted came directly from your messages. If you do not think so, please read over the messages you have posted - and if you don`t recall writing those things I would check who has been using your account.

The one who has problems with over reacting is you - You reacted the same way in the food topic (And no, it wasn`t in response to anything I said, so you can`t blame it on me.)

I don`t understand your preoccupation with people assuming things about you... I have no idea what you think we`re assuming, but so far I have done nothing but respond directly to things you have specifically written.

Anyway, I will continue to reply to your posts and the posts of others in order to spread facts and to try to eliminate misconceptions and stereotypes. I do indeed live in Japan, have lived here quite a while, and I really don`t like people spreading misinformation about the country I call home. If you happen to fall into that category, I`m not going to give you special treatment. Already someone has posted in this thread in response to something you have said, taking it as a statement of fact (because that is how the message was worded - it doesn`t matter what your intent was.)

Either way, I will state for the record in reply to your questions.... No, wait. Actually, I have already addressed all the bits. If anyone actually wants to know the answers to Kawaiineko`s questions, or wants to know the ACTUAL state of things in Japan, please read what I, Jason, and Hatredcopter have written.
Kawaiineko is stating opinion and hearsay as fact - It should be taken with a grain of salt.

[kawaiineko]

Okay you have done nothing but make assumptions about me (whether you meant to or not). When I say you quoted a different user with some of the quotes you made, two of them weren't quotes I made, those were from a separate user. I'm not asking for "special treatment".

I don't appreciate it when people make assumptions about me, it comes of as condescending and really judgmental and you don't know anything about my life. Yeah I'm well aware I don't know alot of the Japanese culture because I'm not immersed in it. However I am attempting to learn about it which is why I make these posts.

Then people act condescending and start assuming things about me and start "bashing" me, and I really don't appreciate being treated that way. People take things the wrong way then they take it out on me.

When you made the assumption that I was arrogant, well that's really wrong, because if you met me in real life, I'm really humble. Further clarification regarding this.....what I put were my own personal thoughts on the topic, my opinions. I never said I was right or wrong.

When I said "I know" I never meant to imply "I'm right, everybody else is wrong". Not really, that
was what I believed based upon what was told. I didn't know how true these things were (regarding prejudice and sexism in Japan) that's why I asked, because I didn't know. What I said was merely opinion, I never claimed I was right or wrong, I was unsure. If people can't understand that, well sorry but they'll just have to deal.

If you're going to say Japan is a utopia, I seriously doubt it. Sadly there is no place like that on earth. Every culture in the world is going to be doing something that is unethical in some
shape or form. There isn't a culture in the world who thinks that women aren't the inferior gender. People always seem to think a male is perfect, stronger, better simply because of their gender which is wrong. They have weaknesses and flaws too. For people to look down on women (or men) because of their gender is wrong. For people to look down on somebody because if their race is wrong; none of these practices are ethical; it makes the group feel inferior as a human being.

[Nyororin]

Ah, I see now which quotes you were talking about - back in the first post I made in this topic right? I guess I should have clarified that they weren`t from you. I know they weren`t. But they were points that I felt needed to be addressed. I didn`t mean to present them as being quotes from you.

I *know* you don`t know all that much about Japanese culture. I would love to help you learn about it, and to help answer your questions. My frustration is rooted in the fact that even when someone (not just me) states fact that does not follow your "opinion" that was stated in another message... You either totally ignore it, or say they have to be wrong.
Just because some of the information we give you (The "we" meaning those who actually have first hand knowledge of life in Japan.) may not go along with something you read somewhere else does not make it false. Chances are, the information you`ve picked up elsewhere is either just someone repeating stereotypes, or is very out of date.

I am female, and I am not Japanese, AND I have worked in several different companies here. My husband is also Japanese, and from a traditional family. I can TELL you, accurately, from personal experience what it is actually like here to be a foreign woman, and how women are actually treated. But even though I gave you a lot of information, you just skipped over it and continued to say you "know" such and such.

I`m not trying to bash you, or even show any sort of anger toward you. I apologize if I misinterpreted what you were trying to say, but we only communicate via the written word here. I have no other means to determine what you want to say.

[Nyororin]

I don`t like editing my posts, as it leaves a lot open to complaint later...
So I am posting a second message in reply to the additions to Kawaiineko`s previous post. (I guess I wrote the first message while the edit was taking place.)

If you're going to say Japan is a utopia, I seriously doubt it. Sadly there is no place like that on earth. Every culture in the world is going to be doing something that is unethical in some
shape or form. There isn't a culture in the world who thinks that women aren't the inferior gender. People always seem to think a male is perfect, stronger, better simply because of their gender which is wrong. They have weaknesses and flaws too. For people to look down on women (or men) because of their gender is wrong. For people to look down on somebody because if their race is wrong; none of these practices are ethical; it makes the group feel inferior as a human being.

I have never, and never will say Japan is a utopia. I live here, I know better than that. However, I will defend complaints about Japan that are not really truthful.

You are right about people often thinking that females rank below men in most cultures. The problem is *practice* and how much that actually comes into play in modern life. If you go back so far with any culture, and you`re going to hit that sort of thing. But it is incredibly unfair to assume that because at some point in the past certain values were prevalent, that they are STILL the same in the present. That is the case with Japan - As with ANY culture, that sort of thinking was quite strong... in the past. Your question, I assume, is about the present - correct? Yes, I`m sure there are men out there who think that way... But they are not the majority. In *modern* Japanese culture, there really is no strong discrimination against women. There are, however, things that will LOOK that way to western eyes. This is what I was talking when I quoted myself. In general, the western woman wants to have a career, wants to be independent, etc etc. In general, the Japanese woman does not. Even with those choices available to her - as they are in this modern day and age - most women choose to follow a traditional path. This really has nothing to do with men`s opinions, or a glass ceiling. Instead, it`s choice.

As for race - well, I think that most everyone has made it clear that Japanese are NOT afraid of foreigners. When it comes to employment, I really think Hatredcopter worded it best - After all, what is the advantage of hiring someone from abroad when there are plenty of qualified Japanese wanting the job? I imagine if you can reliably do all the same work as a Japanese employee, are fully qualified, and don`t bring any extra work to the company... They would treat you exactly the same as they treat any other employee. I have friends who are wonderful examples of this.
It`s not race as much as it is not being able to actually do the same work, on the same level as a Japanese person applying for the job... Or requiring a lot of work from the company side (visas, etc.) Unless there is an advantage to hiring you over someone else, you`re probably not going to get the job.

Special treatment based on your race is another form of racism - even if it is in your favor.

[Acidreptile]

Geez no one can discuss things without fighting....

[Kanji_The_Wanderer]

*sigh* Listen, it is very possible to have a debate/discussion without insults. Refrain from calling people "jerks" and such other words. If you don't like something someone says don't jump right to getting upset, step back and analyze what was written, then respond in a mature manner. I don't like it when people insult other people. Especially online, it serves no purpose and just gets you in trouble.

So KawaiiNeko, I am not trying to take sides (as a moderator I am not one to do so) I just respond and give my opinion. Nyororin and Jasonbvr live in Japan, and they are adults. so they know better then most people, and have had more time there then younger people. They have experienced what you are saying, and thus know how to talk about it.

[kawaiineko]

First I am an adult. Second, everybody has pet peeves. When you strike these nerves with people, they're going to take offense to it, because it's their pet peeve. My pet peeve is when people make assumptions about me or come off as judgmental or condescending. People here, whether they meant to or not, have come off that way when responding to me, and it offended me.

Regarding the gajin thing.....

No I'm not saying that a gajin deserves special treatment. What I'm saying
is if they are fully fluent in Japanese, know Japanese etiquette, and can do the job just as well as a Japanese, then to not hire simply because they're a gajin IS prejudice. I'm not saying Japanese people do this, I'm merely speaking hypothetically to prove a point.

I'm also not saying all cultures currently believe females as the inferior gender. However their past thinking on that probably does influence the culture to an extent (not nearly as heavily, but I believe the past will always effect a person's life, or this case a culture's view of thinking to an extent).

[Acidreptile]

Originally Posted by kawaiineko

First I am an adult. Second, everybody has pet peeves. When you strike these nerves with people, they're going to take offense to it, because it's their pet peeve. My pet peeve is when people make assumptions about me or come off as judgmental or condescending. People here, whether they meant to or not, have come off that way when responding to me, and it offended me.

Regarding the gajin thing.....

No I'm not saying that a gajin deserves special treatment. What I'm saying
is if they are fully fluent in Japanese, know Japanese etiquette, and can do the job just as well as a Japanese, then to not hire simply because they're a gajin IS prejudice. I'm not saying Japanese people do this, I'm merely speaking hypothetically to prove a point.

I'm also not saying all cultures currently believe females as the inferior gender. However their past thinking on that probably does influence the culture to an extent (not nearly as heavily, but I believe the past will always effect a person's life, or this case a culture's view of thinking to an extent).

Well unfortunatelly it's true that there's still discrimination against women,all across the world.But women slowly are taking control,they are even presidents now in many countries,so I believe soon that discrimination will be over.And It seens like ALL countries treat foreigners bad,it's like that here,in USA,why in japan would be different?

[NanteNa]

Originally Posted by kawaiineko

Okay I never said that Japanese men don't love women. I don't know why everybody is taking this the wrong way. I'm not trying to offend anybody. I just don't want to have an unrealistic perspective regarding their culture. From what I HEARD they view females as an inferior gender when compared to males (in other words it's a male dominated society; women are important to them sure, but they have their place). I'm merely asking is this just a stereotype or not?

Well. I don't recall saying u did. But still, I think you misunderstood my way of expressing the 'loving women'-part.
My impression of Japan, has mostly been their extreme focus on respect. Therefore I was surprised, when it was posted, that raping is a ''normal'' (don't get me wrong) thing.

[Kanji_The_Wanderer]

Originally Posted by kawaiineko

First I am an adult. Second, everybody has pet peeves. When you strike these nerves with people, they're going to take offense to it, because it's their pet peeve. My pet peeve is when people make assumptions about me or come off as judgmental or condescending. People here, whether they meant to or not, have come off that way when responding to me, and it offended me.

Well it is still possible to talk to someone without all the name calling. They made you mad, so you don't have to try to get even or get back at them by calling them something. So you are an adult, well then you should know how to act accordingly in these types of situations. In this post you didn't write any name calling. As long as you do that, then this thread can stay open.