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I have a friend with a bilingual 6-year-old son they are now sending to French American school to give him exposure to French. |
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I'm caucasian, African American, Spanish, and German. |
I find it very funny when i read how people claim they are native american by ancestory. They are clearly european or african by descent. People should be more honest and stop this fashion crazy mentality. :)
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If you want to affect your kids childhood this way then go ahead. I know kids brains are built for soaking that up... but start by teaching 1 language first... wait till he is 3-4 to start teaching the other. It is more effective and gets the same result but it doesn't make him being unable to communicate with his parents. |
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I very likely am, it just hasn't been verified, only because I don't know how to go about it. |
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Define "communicate properly" and show many any 4 year old that does it. Some of the kids speak English to mom and Japanese to dad (or vice versa) some use a mix of both. The only anguish I have seen is a 6-year-old that shushed his Japanese speaking mom when she spoke Japanese to him at his American kindergarten. I also saw anguish in a child who was 100% Japanese who spoke no English and moved to the US where he was placed in a 3-year-old level school/daycare. The first few weeks were hell, as the boy didn't speak English and the teachers didn't speak Japanese, but after about three weeks the boy picked up enough English to function in class (and probably surpassed his own mother's English) and he went from crying when going to school to running into the classroom to see his new English-speaking friends. I wonder if he would have had that much anguish those first few weeks if his parents had spoken English to him when he was younger? |
Bilingual children at age 2-3? o.O
I'm all against this, if I'm a parent I will talk to my child only using one language and not mix them. It's not only an idea of mine, everybody suggests it this way. I sure do know bilingual kids as much as you, but the problem is HOW they learnt it? |
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This study shows how children two and even younger can distinguish the differences between English and Japanese words. The brain is an amazing thing. The linguistic development of a Japanese-English bilingual at age two: a case study |
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A cousin of mine lives in Austria and he always talked to his kid using his native language. His kid got used to it properly BUT also got used to German language due to his surroundings and friends. Of course his German wasn't the same as his father's native language. But soon his dad started to teach him German more and talked him more using German. The son was able to distinguish languages really early... and then he went to kindergarten which helped him further getting the accent. If his father had used both languages to him since the start, the kid wouldn't be able to differentiate them because he would think his father speaks using 1 language, so he would mix them and not be able to communicate. But his dad used only one language, and his friends used another. This way he was able to distinguish they used different languages... and learn them properly. |
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Maybe you need to read what I wrote and the study I posted. There is nothing that says you shouldn't talk to children in two languages. I understand your personal experience on the matter, but I think those are isolated cases and I personally know dozens of cases where bilingual usage is a POSITIVE experience, and more importantly NO cases where it was a negative one. The study shows that children can make those language distinctions at an early age. Yes, children will mix the two languages, but that is usually NOT because they don't know they are speaking one language or the other, but because they don't know the word they are looking for in the other language YET. Quote:
Considerind the number of children raised in bilingual homes over the last generation or two, shouldn't there be a growing number of "language handicaps" in society today? No, there aren't. What I do see more of is adult children of bilingual parents who wished they had used both languages when they were younger, so they would be bilingual today. This is especially true of Asian wives who move to America with husbands who don't speak the Asian tongue. Quote:
You are making the conclusion that if a child is exposed to two languages when they are "too young" they will never be able to distinguish the two. There is no evidence to support that, and I would say the opposite is true. The sooner you start exposing children to multiple languages the sooner they will become bilingual. |
[quote=MMM;726755]Tsk tsk...seriously?
Maybe you need to read what I wrote and the study I posted. There is nothing that says you shouldn't talk to children in two languages. I understand your personal experience on the matter, but I think those are isolated cases and I personally know dozens of cases where bilingual usage is a POSITIVE experience, and more importantly NO cases where it was a negative one. The study shows that children can make those language distinctions at an early age. Yes, children will mix the two languages, but that is usually NOT because they don't know they are speaking one language or the other, but because they don't know the word they are looking for in the other language YET. [quote] I did, and one parent used 1 language only. They can distinguish when two different persons talk 2 different languages, but not when only 1 parent talks 2 languages. Quote:
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My first post here said 'a cousin of mine started doing the same and he had trouble learning which was this or that language.' Had trouble, but he managed to learn it later. I'm just saying how to avoid the trouble. And in another post I said 'If you want to affect your kids childhood this way then go ahead.' Never said he will grow up being unable to talk. They will learn it eventually but have to go through more trouble. And I repeat, I've been talking if ONE parent speaks 2 different languages to his kid, not if 2 parents speak 2 different languages. If 1 persons speaks only 1 language to the kid then it is more than fine. There are many parents who do this and kids mess up. He uses two different names for a toy and is unable to distinguish which is this language or that. Your case study is different, one parent - one language... the kid can distinguish things in that case. I hope I made myself clear. |
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my dad is german and my mom is japanese |
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"Another factor leading to Yuki’s dominancein Japanese is the home environment, where her parents do not strictly follow the one-person-one language strategy. In addition, Yuki’s English-speaking father understands Japanese and oftenresponds positively to her Japanese utterances, which further reduces her motivation to use English. (Although the issue of comprehension has not been addressed here in a systematic way,subjective observation indicates that Yuki is able to understand a great deal of her father’s English.In this case, she may be on her way to becoming a passive bilingual)." "Yuki’s dominance in Japanese, however, does not preclude her from recognizing the differencebetween the two languages in her environment. Although Yuki has not clearly demonstrated anability to choose languages based on the situational context (i.e., who she is speaking to) at thispoint in her development, this is probably due to a lack of a clearly monolingual English speakeramong her interlocutors. Through her attitudes toward her non-dominant language, however, Yuki has demonstrated an emerging bilingual awareness." Quote:
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Did you read the case study? See my highlighted quotes above. |
My bad. Well, the conclusion there says differently:
'Yuki’s experience demonstrates that a child growing up with an English-speaking father and a Japanese-speaking mother in the mostly monolingual environment of Japan is likely to be dominant in Japanese at the age of two, especially when the child attends a Japanese daycare center full time.' Anyways, it says he responds to Yuki only when she speaks Japanese. Quite different from my scenario. Some parents tend to speak 50/50, 2 different languages. There is no way for a child to differentiate this. By my experience, parents of my little cousin talked sometimes in Greek and sometimes in Albanian language. To each other they talked in Albanian. Outside they talked Greek. The child became totally confused. My Austrian cousin learnt it my way. He is 5 now and can speak both languages perfectly, and has even an Austrian accent. Mine is not simply a personal experience, it is a case study on itself... my Greek cousin didn't have dyslexia and the doctors explained it that the parents job on teaching language had screwed and made him anxious on not being able to tell what he wants. |
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Yes, he is now 2 years and 2 months, and he now distinguishes between Mummy and Daddy when he says things. Some examples. Yummy - Oishi Ouch - Itai Hello - Konnichiwa Ne, he says after everything be it Japanese or English. What you are saying I have never seen it. I have many friends where I am in Japanese/Australian marriages, all have many children, and I don't see any problems. The problems you experienced with these children crying could have been something totally different as it just does not sound right. |
You talk to your kid using both languages? I mean you, not your wife.
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He loves it and giggles all the way:) |
Whoa whoa - I hate to miss out on this one!!!!
Finally a time has come where I can actually flaunt the 3 year extensive study and all that time I spent studying Japanese - English acquisition in children! Without some sort of box for the child to categorize a language into, they will be totally mixed. In general, this "box" comes from the language being used by different individuals. If those around the child are using both languages, then the child will parse the two languages as one. Much in the same way you can learn different words for the same object, and different ways of saying the same thing. The box may be there from day one or be acquired later. But in most cases there is something for the child to base their distinction upon from the beginning. For example, one parent speaks one language to them while the other speaks another language. Or one language is spoken by family while another is spoken by non-family... Or one language is spoken inside the home with another spoken outside the home. Even with a strongly set pattern, children will naturally pick up one of the languages more quickly than the other. It`s a matter of the level of exposure. In general, picking up the mother`s language first is the rule as the child usually spends the most time with the mother during the first few years. There is nothing that presents an advantage to learning a second language after a certain age. It`s the set pattern that counts. Even if you wait until a child is 3 or 4 to begin the second language, if you cannot set and maintain a pattern for the exposure it will be no different than if you hadn`t set a pattern at birth. The only difference is that it will not be as visible, as the child will always have what they know in the first language to fall back upon. As it is the pattern that counts, my son is monolingual Japanese. My husband does not speak English and we live in Japan, so all the tried and true patterns would not work for us - I am not going to lock my husband out of any communication so decided to ditch English. If we`d lived in the US the situation would be different as it would Japanese in the home, English outside. The case of the child ending up monolingual Japanese is a very very easy one to explain - most time spent with Japanese speaking mother from birth. Limited exposure to English, with the more proficient language still being usable during the encounters with English. Language limited to Japanese outside the home... That puts maybe 5% of language exposure in English. Not a whole lot to work with and not a whole lot of incentive to learn it. |
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English definitely came first for our son, although possibly that also had something to do with being smothered by English communication, with very limited Japanese, except from his Mother during the earlier stages. As far as percentage goes, or even thinking about it, we have not, and it certainly is working naturally, at least for our son. Infact, his talking now is unstoppable and he is loving it. Like I said, he is distinguishing between the two languages between his Mum and I, and doing a mighty fine job of it. I also know plenty of mixed Japanese kids in my location, and outside is English, that is the majority of the time, and no doubt home with Mum is some Japanese, although English still comes into the communication. I think where you live could have a bearing on what language is mainly used. I think the best part our of all this, is having children that are able to speak two languages:) |
Eh, having grown up in a bilingual household, I can safely say that I was never negatively affected. Apparently I simply did not begin speaking until several months after the norm, but the advantage of being familiar with two languages certainly outweighs that.
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I think it's great.. Imagine how many wish to learn Japanese or another language later on. The expense and difficulties. Children's have minds like hard drives. The information just stays. A child like yourself is definitely envied by me with dual knowledge of two languages. Oh yes, and all children do different things at different times. I used to worry that my son would never walk. The first day he stood up and took two steps qualified to my best days of my life list:) |
I am thinking the "anxiety" experienced is more by the parents or more likely grandparents who see their child or grandchild as "slower than average" when they are simply processing (and cementing) a larger amount of information that in the "end" (say at kindergarten or 1st grade) establishes them a BETTER communicators than their peers because they can do it in two languages...
and beyond simply two languages, but two mind sets. One of the biggest hurdles of Japanese language study, for English speakers, is being able to erase what you know about how language communication works, so a certain degree, and allow your brain to accept systems that seem illogical. (i.e. present and future as same verb tense). If your mind is exposed to two (or more) communication tracks at youth, imagine how open your brain might be for other things in the future. |
In tests of children acquiring both languages, they acquire both at about 70% the speed of a child acquiring a single language. So when it comes to speech and comprehension they do appear behind - but have actually acquired 40% more than the monolingual child. It`s just split between two different languages.
After around 75% of both languages is cemented, generally one of the languages takes the forefront and will remain the dominant and preferred language throughout the child`s life. There are very few truly 50/50 bilinguals out there - one language is almost always a bit better than the other. For us, 30% more time to start talking for my son would have been unthinkable. It already took him 4 years to say his first word... *sigh* |
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I went to Pizza Company for lunch today... I asked for "pork lasagne"... she replies "lasagne pork?"... I reply "pork lasagne"... confused, she asks back "lasagne pork?"... *My face drops to my hands* 5 minutes latter... I'm served "lasagne pork" with a desert spoon to eat with... right... My wife is having trouble bearing a kid (miscarriages). It's a heartbreak. I'm going to adopt a Thai girl I think. I wont be teaching any Thai until after English is mastered. I don't want my own children ordering "lasagne pork" and eating main dishes with desert spoons. Nyororin, does your child have any problems with speech? I mean, in Thailand, there are few people who can say a word like "ice", they cannot say the "s" sound when it is at the end of the word. So it sounds like they are saying "eye" instead. I am sure Japanese have similar hickups with English, does your son have any problems with speech that the Japanese also have, or is he learning both languages in correct pronunciation? |
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I think that answers the question... |
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I'll sock God one for him when I see him. |
do we have any mutts on this forum?
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Funnily enough, all my friends with kids similar age to my son are amazed how much he does actually speak. He seems to have picked up a lot of vocabulary fast, but I do think English is dominant with him so far. I guess that could also have something to do with him living in an English speaking country. Are you saying your son started to speak when he was four years old? |
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And yes, that is what I meant... My son didn`t speak his first word until he was 4. |
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I feel like I'm listening to a broken record player! |
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It falls in the same category as saying preemies are so small and cute, and will get nothing but a very cold glare from me. It`s a lot like saying "Aww, I wish my kid was paralyzed from the waist down too because he drives me crazy running around!" when you spot someone pushing their child with cerebral palsy around in a wheelchair. It`s about as cruel as you can be. |
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I don't have a problem with it and occassionally volunteer my time. I treat all with disabilities like anyone else, albeit with an extra bit of work. No doubt the workload becomes very hard and strenuous with your own child, and I understand that. I appreciate your thought's. |
Asian American Children
Hey! just wanted to add to this by saying if you like to see part Asian part European kids or are wondering if your kid'll look Asian,i would say they probably will. and i would watch an episode or check out a picture of the Gosselin Children of Jon and Kate plus 8. the are 1/4'th Korean and look very Asian and are extremely adorable.
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tact [takt] –noun 1.a keen sense of what to say or do to avoid giving offense; skill in dealing with difficult or delicate situations. |
Couldn't agree more..
So many mixed kids are so cute, although I know a few that don't qualify. Luckily my son ranks up their with the best:) |
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